Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation. | Page 8 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

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I can assure you he did not get target fixation.

As for the target fixation you have NO idea on this, you weren't there.

No offense, but as you stated, you weren't there either. So you saying you know he didn't get target fixation is the same speculation as everyone elses.
You might have an educated guess on if he did or didn't do anything, but as every other post on here, it is still speculation.

I was certain my riding buddy would never run from the police, until he should up at my house one day asking if he could put his bike under my bike cover.........

The only people that know the truth are the cop and rider. Every other statement (including yours) is at best, an educated guess.

I personally believe the cop is at fault just due to the position of where the cruiser was hit. I just hope good or bad, the truth comes out at some point.
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

No offense, but as you stated, you weren't there either. So you saying you know he didn't get target fixation is the same speculation as everyone elses.
You might have an educated guess on if he did or didn't do anything, but as every other post on here, it is still speculation.

I was certain my riding buddy would never run from the police, until he should up at my house one day asking if he could put his bike under my bike cover.........

The only people that know the truth are the cop and rider. Every other statement (including yours) is at best, an educated guess.

I personally believe the cop is at fault just due to the position of where the cruiser was hit. I just hope good or bad, the truth comes out at some point.

He never stated that he didn't get target fixation, he stated that the friend could not know either way.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Did some one say to wait and see the outcome....................rip
 
He never stated that he didn't get target fixation, he stated that the friend could not know either way.
Ahhh, hedo's post was quoting dvsbullets without the quote bubble.
I guess my post was quoting dvs than and the same point as hedo's.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Getting a bit off topic but what do you do about a rider who is simply willing to run for any infraction. They will not have a license plate. First sign of a pull over they are off. There is no showing up at their house as the cops have no idea who it is. A good rider will never be caught by conventional means. What are the police to do? It is easier to stop a car as they can use spike strips and/or the PIT maneuver. If either are done to a fleeing motorcyclist the rider will probably get killed. Again what to do?

That's what choppers and planes are for.
 
That's what choppers and planes are for.
And how long does it take from the first sign of running until they can spot you?
If the patrol car can still radio your location by the time a plane or chopper catches up, you probably weren't getting away in the first place.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Well the investigation has been completed and the results released.

I know many won't be satisfied. But some statements made by members who didn't know what happened at the time, do need to be corrected. Dvsbullet stated Cayton was a true motorhead. He was very good at riding everything that has a motor. He did wear shorts and T-shirt occasionally when just putting around. But when he was RIDING he was always in gear. And the night of the accident he was wearing gear. He was also a very humble rider and never wanted to go out of his ability.

"Yes, he was a hooligan and he likely tried to run, but the police move was unwarranted and placed the public in needless danger. "

He was not running as he was not being chased. He may have been speeding, but instead of letting him pass and chase him down, the officer decided to pull out and give him no other way out except into the side of his cruiser.

"A little bit of cart before the horse here? The guy who says he's the rider's friend has posted his ASSUMPTION and people are taking it as gospel and gathering the pitch forks."

It was an assumption yes, but regardless the cop still pulled out blocking any way out for Clayton. After seeing the bike and close up pics of the cruiser there is only 2 possible ways it could have happened. The cop was either going east in front of Clayton and decided to cut him off in the oncoming lane when he tried to pass him. Or the cop was hiding behind the concrete barrier facing east doing radar and pulled out blocking any way out. Either way it was deliberate and his actions killed a great person.


Well as we now know none of what was "assumed" by his friend in the last paragraph is correct. The officer didn't pull out to block Clayton nor was the officer hiding behind a concrete barrier. Nor did Clayton "try to run." This is why myself and a few others were stating correctly let's wait for the investigation. MOST of the posts contained inaccurate assumptions and speculations.

A few others said "the cop needs to be charged for even chasing this guy on a bike and pulling in front of him to stop him". Well there is NO evidence of a chase or that the cop pulled in front of him to stop him.

I can tell you about 3 months ago I passed an OPP cruiser sitting on the shoulder of 115/35 doing radar. I was in my cage and doing the limit so NO worries. I watched the cruiser in my rear view mirror for about 45 seconds at 80 K he was nothing more than a speck which I could no longer, (had I not seen it), identify as a car. So I continued along. About 1 minute later I was startled, when this same cruiser, blew past me at about 150km. I had checked my mirror a few seconds before and didn't see him coming with the lights on. It actually casued me to swerve to the right slightly I was so startled.

All I am saying is it could be very possible this officer didn't see the bike coming at that speed. Just like me on 35/115 he shouldn't be expecting a vehicle to be traveling at twice the limit on the road.

Although he wasn't charged the officer will ultimately face a lawsuit from the estate as well as the reminder daily that he was in a collision with another person who died.

http://www.siu.on.ca/en/news_template.php?nrid=2063

 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

No, it doesn't sound like charges would be warranted, and the rider was speeding rather than actively evading pursuit but god, how I hate U-turning vehicles.
 
What annoys me is that the cop didn't partake in an interview especially if he's got nothing to hide.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

What annoys me is that the cop didn't partake in an interview especially if he's got nothing to hide.

Sadly, if the law allows not talking, that is the best bet for everybody. Nothing good ever comes from talking. Personally, I think that an on-duty officer should be forced to talk, but that's not the way the law is, it's our fault for electing idiots (decades of them).

The investigation is a little shady in that it talks about how he was so hard to see due to poor lighting conditions, it was 11:15 at night, didn't he have a headlight on? The witness said she didn't see the bike 30 seconds before it passed her, if I'm doing a u-turn, I am checking 2 seconds before I turn, not 30.

Although it appears there are not reasonable grounds for a criminal charge here, it closely mimics the UK Go Pro video where the turning vehicle should be charged with failure to yield or turn not in safety as a minimum (potentially careless as there really is no excuse for not seeing a headlight on a dark road at night).
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I find it very ironic, when a member posts here that the police want to talk them about an alleged offence the FIRST advice from most members is "say nothing don't even go meet with them". Yet when the roles are reversed and it is a cop, (who has the same rights as everyone else), then they are condemned for not talking, (not referring to your post specifically Greyghost). Also this "principle" of not having to talk to the SIU isn't as a result of any politician, it has been ruled on by the courts. If the officer was forced to speak to them then nothing the officer said could be used in a court case as it would be a violation of their charter rights.

The witness wasn't the one making the turn she was merely stating that the bike was traveling so fast, (her opinion), that it wasn't visible 30 seconds before it passed her. That was to demonstrate how easily he could be missed. Try it go out to a back road without lighting, park on the shoulder then have a friend approach you at speed, using only your mirrors and a shoulder check see how close the bike is before you can see it, (of course this wouldn't be the same as you are specifically looking for a single headlight), the officer likely did what we all do looked quickly and not seeing two headlights missed the single light.

As for the seeing a headlight, again it depends when the officer looked, the bike may not have even entered his field of vision at the point he looked, (giving consideration to it's speed). Of course one could reverse the roles and ask why didn't the rider see a fully marked, (with reflective items) on the side of the road and slowed in case it did pull in front of him? Seeing that even with the skid mark the rider only slowed by at most, (according to the figures in the SIU release) slowed from a max of 154 to 142 km/h, "may" indicate he didn't see the cruiser either. He may have been still focused on the witnesses car he had just passed. Remember there were traffic cones in that area due to construction. Could the bikes headlight been blocked from the officer's view behind one of these cones?

The failure to yield or not turn in safety charge also wouldn't apply as the investigators concluded that considering all factors, (Road grade, lighting, speed of he bike) that a "reasonable person" wouldn't have seen or anticipated the bikes presence.

None of this information was released in the statement from the SIU, (they never publish their entire investigative reports, although the family and lawyers will at some gain access to it).

Sadly, if the law allows not talking, that is the best bet for everybody. Nothing good ever comes from talking. Personally, I think that an on-duty officer should be forced to talk, but that's not the way the law is, it's our fault for electing idiots (decades of them).

The investigation is a little shady in that it talks about how he was so hard to see due to poor lighting conditions, it was 11:15 at night, didn't he have a headlight on? The witness said she didn't see the bike 30 seconds before it passed her, if I'm doing a u-turn, I am checking 2 seconds before I turn, not 30.

Although it appears there are not reasonable grounds for a criminal charge here, it closely mimics the UK Go Pro video where the turning vehicle should be charged with failure to yield or turn not in safety as a minimum (potentially careless as there really is no excuse for not seeing a headlight on a dark road at night).
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

What annoys me is that the cop didn't partake in an interview especially if he's got nothing to hide.

Police don't give up their constitutional rights by becoming police. So many people here advocate saying nothing to police. This also applies to police who are talking to police/SIU.

Sadly, if the law allows not talking, that is the best bet for everybody. Nothing good ever comes from talking. Personally, I think that an on-duty officer should be forced to talk, but that's not the way the law is, it's our fault for electing idiots (decades of them).

The investigation is a little shady in that it talks about how he was so hard to see due to poor lighting conditions, it was 11:15 at night, didn't he have a headlight on? The witness said she didn't see the bike 30 seconds before it passed her, if I'm doing a u-turn, I am checking 2 seconds before I turn, not 30.

Although it appears there are not reasonable grounds for a criminal charge here, it closely mimics the UK Go Pro video where the turning vehicle should be charged with failure to yield or turn not in safety as a minimum (potentially careless as there really is no excuse for not seeing a headlight on a dark road at night).

Using the lowest estimate of 142 Kmh, which was determined to be the speed immediately prior to the collision, that's 40 Metres per second. A lot can block your view in the space he'd have covered in just a few seconds.
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I can tell you about 3 months ago I passed an OPP cruiser sitting on the shoulder of 115/35 doing radar. I was in my cage and doing the limit so NO worries. I watched the cruiser in my rear view mirror for about 45 seconds at 80 K he was nothing more than a speck which I could no longer, (had I not seen it), identify as a car. So I continued along. About 1 minute later I was startled, when this same cruiser, blew past me at about 150km. I had checked my mirror a few seconds before and didn't see him coming with the lights on. It actually casued me to swerve to the right slightly I was so startled.

All I am saying is it could be very possible this officer didn't see the bike coming at that speed. Just like me on 35/115 he shouldn't be expecting a vehicle to be traveling at twice the limit on the road.

Neat story.

So when I run the numbers, your admitting that you didn't see a police vehicle approaching from behind with activated lights for 20+ seconds? I think it was more than a "few seconds" between your glances in the mirror....
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Police don't give up their constitutional rights by becoming police. So many people here advocate saying nothing to police. This also applies to police who are talking to police/SIU.

Are you saying that we should not hold our officers to a higher standard that the common folk?
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

So at least now the police are free to do their job. They are mandated to conduct their own investigation post SIU.

It was clearly an illegal Uturn, so we can now expect a charge/conviction for that in the least.

I will be waiting patiently.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Are you saying that we should not hold our officers to a higher standard that the common folk?

Holding them to a higher standard is not the same thing as denying them their Constitutional rights. My feelings are the following:

We should give police officers the benefit of the doubt and any and all co-operation that does not run counter to our own rights. If, however, an officer is found to have abused the power and trust conveyed upon him by his position in society, he should then be landed on with jack booted feet.

Clear?
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I find it very ironic, when a member posts here that the police want to talk them about an alleged offence the FIRST advice from most members is "say nothing don't even go meet with them". Yet when the roles are reversed and it is a cop, (who has the same rights as everyone else), then they are condemned for not talking, (not referring to your post specifically Greyghost).

You know, its just what I personally would expect from someone who's in a leadership role in our society. I guess, I have different expectations having had more dealings over the years with a different police force in a different country.
Litigation is becoming common in society here, so I understand why he would be advised not to speak about it.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

delete
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

There will be no charges laid by YRP. Feel free to enlighten us how it is "clearly an illegal Uturn"? Last I looked at the HTA a uturn is ONLY illegal if it is completed in an area where there are NO u turn signs posted. There are no such signs in this area. Just because the uturn resulted in a collision does not make it illegal.

Secondly, the SIU is the one mandated to lay charges when they complete an investigation. Let's follow your supposition for a minute that YRP will now charge the officer. The FIRST defence witness will be the SIU investigators. The officers lawyers, will then ask why did you not charge my client? Their reply... likely... Our investigation revealed no wrong doing on the part of the officer. Defence turns to judge and says "your honor, I request a dismissal of all charges" Judge... Motion granted

As for your "running the number" on my story. I will elaborate. It was an unmarked cruiser, with just the small flashing lights located on the passenger visor, not a complete visi bar, (light bar on roof). secondly as Rob pointed out a vehicle traveling at that speed covers approx 40 meters per second. so it would have covered approx .5 km in less than 10 seconds. The speed with which it passed created a wind gust often equated with a passing tractor trailer, in that it caused my vehicle to move.

I used the term "a few seconds" perhaps it was 15 seconds, I had also just crested a grade on that section of the road which limited the distance behind which I could see. However 15 second mirror check is not unreasonable given I was traveling at the limit (actually 85 as that is what I set my cruise to on that roadway to avoid tickets), and when last checked there was no other vehicles visible to my rear.


So at least now the police are free to do their job. They are mandated to conduct their own investigation post SIU.

It was clearly an illegal Uturn, so we can now expect a charge/conviction for that in the least.

I will be waiting patiently.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Sounds like a solid conclusion to me. Instead of the "FTP" statements maybe we should take a look at our riding habits as this could have easily been a car pulling out from a side street and had the same end result.
 
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