Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

[kiwi]

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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Never heard of a requirement to pull to the right before a U turn. I just turn left (after checking mirrors, shoulder check etc)

 

[DVS Bullet]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Exactly, it wasn't just a normal U-turn. The cop pulled to the right first just beyond the end the concrete barrier blocking the little view they and Clayton had and came right back out with out stopping. It is not even a U-turn at this point as the cop was turning left back onto the roadway with out looking or stopping.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

But what about that guy who died in England? He was speeding and the other car made the turn cutting him off. The driver was charged. IMO, he shouldn't have been charged but that is why I'm confused.

Different countries, different laws. As I understand it in England they would both have been charged, but it's a little redundant to try and punish a dead man.

 

[kiwi]

Exactly, it wasn't just a normal U-turn. The cop pulled to the right first just beyond the end the concrete barrier blocking the little view they and Clayton had and came right back out with out stopping. It is not even a U-turn at this point as the cop was turning left back onto the roadway with out looking or stopping.

We will never know if the cop looked or not, But the GPS data would provide details on what the vehicle did.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

People who never went to crash site should really say nothing. It was an illegal U-turn because there was a crest of a hill, a bend in the road with a concrete barrier where visibility was way less then 150 meters. The cop was in front of Clayton, he was not sitting on the side of the road. When the cop got to the end of the barrier he turned into the unused lanes and pulled straight out in front of Clayton to do his U-Turn all in one motion without stopping. The cop did not have his lights on and did not have the vision around the barrier or around the slight bend in the road, nor did Clayton. He didn't even stop to look to see if anyone was coming so no wonder he didn't see the light of the bike. I am sure he should have heard him coming if the motor was reving at that speed though. Even if this was an accident the person should not be a officer because they clearly can not make proper decicions in obvious circumstances and they should be charged for the illegal and careless U-turn. I hope this eats him/her for the rest of their life.

Please post a Google Maps link to the precise location.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I dunno. The only other person right here to go and look at the site himself. Seems those that actually went and made the observations for themselves are drawing the same conclusions. I don't even know this lad, but his observations are strikingly similar to mine. Except from what I recall there was no shoulder for the officer to pull over to on the right? Was just concrete barrier right up against the driving surface? Anyone know if the requirement of a legal Uturn is to pull onto the right shoulder first?

There is no such requirement.

 

[DVS Bullet]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I dunno. The only other person right here to go and look at the site himself. Seems those that actually went and made the observations for themselves are drawing the same conclusions. I don't even know this lad, but his observations are strikingly similar to mine. Except from what I recall there was no shoulder for the officer to pull over to on the right? Was just concrete barrier right up against the driving surface? Anyone know if the requirement of a legal Uturn is to pull onto the right shoulder first?

The point of impact was a couple car lengths after the end of the barrier. He cut through the row of large pylons at the end of the barrier.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

If it's physically impossible to see the vehicle, due to speed, then the default assumption (a reasonable one) is that there is no vehicle.

Yes Rob, this makes complete sense if a safe/legal Uturn was being made. The problem that I have is that this attempt to turn was made at the bottom of a hill, with limited view, and with the road narrowed down to skinny lanes, not allowing reasonable view or room to manouver regardless of speed of approaching vehicle.

Yes Clay was speeding. Yes he was outriding his headlights( had to be regardless of speed as he was cresting a hill), and yes I believe he was riding beyond his abilities( Front brakes work better!).

My head will not allow me to accept the above as the sole contributing factors to this collision. There was an officer involved, who made decisions as well, and whether or not lawful, any reasonable person who looks at the site in person would agree at the very least that it was not a safe manouver.

I appreciate Hedo offering input on protocol and procedure, but he really has minimal to offer. I think he said way back that he was familiar with that road(I could be wrong), but he is clearly not.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Yes Rob, this makes complete sense if a safe/legal Uturn was being made. The problem that I have is that this attempt to turn was made at the bottom of a hill, with limited view, and with the road narrowed down to skinny lanes, not allowing reasonable view or room to manouver regardless of speed of approaching vehicle.

I'm awaiting the map location of the incident so I can determine, for myself, if it was in fact an illegal turn.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

There is no such requirement.

Thanks Rob.

Im not understanding how SIU can call this a Uturn. It's physically impossible.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I'm awaiting the map location of the incident so I can determine, for myself, if it was in fact an illegal turn.

The map won't help now. The roadway was different during construction. I so wish I took pictures. I was only there to allow my own head to wrap around it. Never even considered that I would have to try to explain to others. All the map will do is show the hill, not the lack of shoulder, the width of the lanes, the barrier cones...

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Thanks Rob.

Im not understanding how SIU can call this a Uturn. It's physically impossible.

Could have been a 3-point turn. That would make more sense, in a narrow location.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

The map won't help now. The roadway was different during construction. I so wish I took pictures. I was only there to allow my own head to wrap around it. Never even considered that I would have to try to explain to others. All the map will do is show the hill, not the lack of shoulder, the width of the lanes, the barrier cones...

Elevations are likely unchanged, so it would provide me with what the sightlines are like.

 

[DVS Bullet]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Please post a Google Maps link to the precise location.

Come on now. Google maps? If you really care go there yourself. There is a memorial where the impact was. Google maps won't show ****. And even if you go there it will look like a wide open 4 lane road with lots of visibility. Unlike it was that night with all of the construction going on. Within a couple days of the accident they had taken the barrier down. That is why I never posted picks of the scene, because they had changed it almost immediately.

 

[DVS Bullet]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

We will never know if the cop looked or not, But the GPS data would provide details on what the vehicle did.

Exactly, and what I typed is exactly what the SIU said to the family. Not that he didn't look, but that it was all one motion. He didn't stop. Therefore he did not stop to look.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Come on now. Google maps? If you really care go there your self. There is a memorial where the impact was. Google maps won't show ****. And even you go there it will look like a wide open 4 lane road with lots of visibility. Unlike it was that night with all of the construction going on. Within a couple days of the accident they had taken the barrier down. That is why I never posted picks of the scene, because they had changed it almost immediately.

I agree. Like I asked months ago. Go look for yourselves people.

 

[hedo2002]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

I said I am familiar with the roadway, as I used to travel that route regularly. I didn't say I was familiar with it that day. Maybe I am misreading but you said in one post that it was at the bottom of the hill, but then you said Clayton was out riding his headlights as he was cresting a hill???

As I have I am sure the SIU have looked at all the data including the cruisers black box. You will note that at no point did I say the officer stopped prior to making his turn just suggested he may have done a mirror and shoulder check. But again if clayton has been riding properly, even 20 k over he would have been a LOT closer behind the cruiser and surely the officer would have seen him and Clayton would have seen the cruiser on the road pre turn. Certainly the officer was there and made decisions as did Clayton. However the officer wasn't committing an offense at the time if the collision only Clayton was. Also the investigation stated that given the conditions a reasonable person couldn't have seen the bike or foreseen the collision. I understand you don't want to accept that. But that us the conclusion of the investigators with all the facts. Respectfully, your getting some of tour information second hand from the family. It is human nature that in circumstances such as these people hear what they want to hear and not necessarily what was said. Again my condolences.

Exactly, and what I typed is exactly what the SIU said to the family. Not that he didn't look, but that it was all one motion. He didn't stop. Therefore he did not stop to look.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Exactly, it wasn't just a normal U-turn. The cop pulled to the right first just beyond the end the concrete barrier blocking the little view they and Clayton had and came right back out with out stopping. It is not even a U-turn at this point as the cop was turning left back onto the roadway with out looking or stopping.

Oh Jeebus. I just realized what is said here, and this is what SIU told the family. That the cruiser did enter the roadway from behind the concrete barrier. That's insane. There was no UTurn. The cruiser left the roadway and reentered perpendicular to road. That move is exactly what I concluded when I went to look at the site. It is the only scenario that physically makes sense.

 

[DVS Bullet]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Oh Jeebus. I just realized what is said here, and this is what SIU told the family. That the cruiser did enter the roadway from behind the concrete barrier. That's insane. There was no UTurn. The cruiser left the roadway and reentered perpendicular to road. That move is exactly what I concluded when I went to look at the site. It is the only scenario that physically makes sense.

Exactly.

 

[casacrow]

Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.



Sorry, best I can offer. Sent my driver on an errand......

So car is parked right at point of imact. Car is where the cruiser ended up facing right(north).

We are looking West.

I wish we had some from construction, the entire road was about as wide as a single lane is now, and there was a concrete barrier running down what what is the middle of the road now.

Looks so wide, open, and safe now.....

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