Cars and Excessive Rolling Stops

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I have had to dodge way too many people who think that a stop sign or light means "slow down." I would have thought that motorcyclists wouldn't have the same opinion given that we're harder to see and more easily hit as a result when people do this, but obviously I was wrong.

Red means stop. It means stop before the crosswalk or, where present, before the thick stop line. By law if you do not stop before that line you have blown the stop, and they actually used to ticket people for that. By law you must stop at the appropriate location and then proceed when it is safe to do so which means if you cannot see far enough down the cross street to insure safety, you pull forward and stop again when you can see. Yes, I do this. I feel like I'm the last bloody Airbender, or something.

In addition to this, why is it that people in the left turn lane feel the need to pull up into the crosswalk? They gain no benefit in doing this. It's not like it's really going to get them through the intersection any faster, but it certainly blocks the view of the people to the right of them.

As to roundabouts, no one here has a clue how to use them.

[video=youtube;wnfjcgeuo_k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnfjcgeuo_k[/video]
 
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Rob MacLennan said:
As to roundabouts, no one here has a clue how to use them.
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Which I find surprising as almost 1/2 the population in the GTA has a immigrant background from other countries where I am sure Roundabouts are more common.
 
kiwi said:
Which I find surprising as almost 1/2 the population in the GTA has a immigrant background from other countries where I am sure Roundabouts are more common.
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Well let's see if anyone can tell us what was wrong in that video.
 
It's obvious to me.

That roundabout is poorly marked with no central island, but the yield signs are there ...
 
Brian P said:
It's obvious to me.

That roundabout is poorly marked with no central island, but the yield signs are there ...
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There is a central island, but it's rather small. The roundabouts are signed and, as you mentioned, the yield signs are present. So the error is.......?
 
Rob MacLennan said:
I have had to dodge way too many people who think that a stop sign or light means "slow down." I would have thought that motorcyclists wouldn't have the same opinion given that we're harder to see and more easily hit as a result when people do this, but obviously I was wrong.

Red means stop. It means stop before the crosswalk or, where present, before the thick stop line. By law if you do not stop before that line you have blown the stop, and they actually used to ticket people for that. By law you must stop at the appropriate location and then proceed when it is safe to do so which means if you cannot see far enough down the cross street to insure safety, you pull forward and stop again when you can see. Yes, I do this. I feel like I'm the last bloody Airbender, or something.

In addition to this, why is it that people in the left turn lane feel the need to pull up into the crosswalk? They gain no benefit in doing this. It's not like it's really going to get them through the intersection any faster, but it certainly blocks the view of the people to the right of them.

As to roundabouts, no one here has a clue how to use them.

[video=youtube;wnfjcgeuo_k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnfjcgeuo_k[/video]
Click to expand...

Here there's no traffic, so stop signs mean take a quick look and then goose it. You have to be careful, especially if you have the right-of-way, people just aren't used to having traffic coming, so they barely slow down if at all.
Keep that in mind, when you head out of the city for a ride.

My last accident in Toronto was someone running the yield at a roundabout.
He'd assumed that I'd be taking the second right, and not the third.
He ended up T-boning me.
 
Baggsy said:
Here there's no traffic, so stop signs mean take a quick look and then goose it. You have to be careful, especially if you have the right-of-way, people just aren't used to having traffic coming, so they barely slow down if at all.
Keep that in mind, when you head out of the city for a ride.

My last accident in Toronto was someone running the yield at a roundabout.
He'd assumed that I'd be taking the second right, and not the third.
He ended up T-boning me.
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In a small roundabout, like this one, the safest thing to do is to signal left, for the 9 o'clock exit, rather than right when you're approaching that exit. This warns the oncoming traffic that you're about to cross in front of them. It's also what I was doing in this video.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
In a small roundabout, like this one, the safest thing to do is to signal left, for the 9 o'clock exit, rather than right when you're approaching that exit. This warns the oncoming traffic that you're about to cross in front of them. It's also what I was doing in this video.
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Interesting, good tip. I hadn't really thought about it before.
 
We got a whole new batch of roundabouts in Stouffville in the past couple of years and surprisingly enough, people have picked up on how to use them pretty fast. The first couple of months were pretty rough, with no one knowing who had the right of way and a few obvious jerks cutting through the wrong way to make a left.

Maybe it is just because we've got a relatively small population that was able to quickly hit a critical mass of people understanding them, which set the norm of usage in the area. In contrast, the norm for Markham is to have 4 or 5 cars make left turns after a light goes red - good luck ever getting that to change!

One thing that I think might help with roundabout comprehension is to put the yield signs on the entry dividers, or on the island itself, rather than where a stop sign would go. That way, the yield sign is in a visual line with the traffic that you are supposed to yield to. Everyone has always been told to yield to traffic on the right, but you are effectively yielding to the left when entering a roundabout, which I think gives people problems.
 
The error is not yielding to traffic inside the circle.
Rob MacLennan said:
In a small roundabout, like this one, the safest thing to do is to signal left, for the 9 o'clock exit, rather than right when you're approaching that exit. This warns the oncoming traffic that you're about to cross in front of them. It's also what I was doing in this video.
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Until someone decides that you meant to signal right instead of left.

Don't forget that roundabouts are different from traffic circles, but in which way?
 
one time i was waiting for the light to turn green for me while the left lanes had an advance green going on in both directions. So when it finally turned green for me and I moved off the car making a left turn in front of me decided to continue going caused me to slamming brakes, I know his advance arrow must have ended ages ago but figured he cant still go ahead. This is one thing I've been noticing A LOT.
 
~TheCult said:
one time i was waiting for the light to turn green for me while the left lanes had an advance green going on in both directions. So when it finally turned green for me and I moved off the car making a left turn in front of me decided to continue going caused me to slamming brakes, I know his advance arrow must have ended ages ago but figured he cant still go ahead. This is one thing I've been noticing A LOT.
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Yeah that happens all the time. I don't entirely blame people though because the advance greens in Toronto last like 3 seconds and some people go through so slowly that you're lucky if you get more than one car through.
 
Baggsy said:
The error is not yielding to traffic inside the circle.
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BINGO!

Until someone decides that you meant to signal right instead of left.

Don't forget that roundabouts are different from traffic circles, but in which way?
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To me the terms are effectively interchangeable and I've seen the same location be described as both, so you'll have to enlighten me if there is an actual difference.
 
Not one person in my neighborhood yields to traffic already in the circle. I like them, but maybe an awareness campaign is required? As stated, they are new to some people.
 
DownUnder said:
You onlu signal left as you enter the roundabout if your going to take the third exit (left turn) or 4th exit (uturn). You signal right any time your about to exit the roundabout, wether your going right straight left or doing a u turn.
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It shouldn't matter which exit you're taking relative to where you entered the roundabout. Other drivers can't always know which exit you came in on, and if they could it's more mental work to factor that additional information into the equation.

I think it's more consistent and easier to interpret others' intentions if everybody simply signals left until they pass the last exit before they their exit, at which point you signal right. (So signal right before you enter if you're taking the first exit, otherwise signal left).


Worst thing that happens is someone yields unnecessarily if they don't see your left signal change to a right signal.
 
fastar1 said:
It shouldn't matter which exit you're taking relative to where you entered the roundabout. Other drivers can't always know which exit you came in on, and if they could it's more mental work to factor that additional information into the equation.

I think it's more consistent and easier to interpret others' intentions if everybody simply signals left until they pass the last exit before they their exit, at which point you signal right. (So signal right before you enter if you're taking the first exit, otherwise signal left).


Worst thing that happens is someone yields unnecessarily if they don't see your left signal change to a right signal.
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This.
 
I find it amusing that we're discussing rolling stops and other HTA violations while there are bunch of threads still discussing lane splitting / filtering and having riders trying to justify it, specifically using the argument that "it improves traffic flow". Well, not stopping for red lights / stop signs also improves traffic flow.
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