Buddy crashed this morning!

[SLaP]

Forum Sponsor

All that really matters is that he is doing ok.

The truth!

 

[djltoronto]

Your suggestion "if you're going to run into the car, RUN INTO THE CAR" makes me wince in pain, and I don't recommend that advice to anyone!

So what do you recommend as an alternative... If you are going to run into a car, you suggest _____________________???

the fact is, you have a better chance of stopping the bike on two wheels than you do sliding on the side. Rubber to asphalt friction is greater than plastic/metal to asphalt.

exaclty!

Hmmmmm....lets see...

Road rash...or flying head first on to asphalt, another car, tree...

Yes...you can stop the bike better on two wheels no argument there...but some situation I would never stay on the bike...TUCK AND ROLL!

Once you're off the bike, you are just road-rash sliding in a straight line into whatever is in front of you. Why not scrub off more speed using the bikes tires?

In March, on of my first rides around the block almost nailed a car. (3 lane street, Eglinton / Kennedy) Old lady in far right lane driving along, me about 50 feet behind and in far left lane with no one else on the road for about 70m behind. All of a sudden, she cuts over all 3 lanes and around a median and makes an illegal U.

Aside from the really bad lane changes - what was illegal about her U-turn?

 

[MG]

I have...and he is right. The way our laws are written, a good driver , who does his best to avoid the actual impact of a collision, will be found guilty of a single vehicle accident if the other driver lies thru his teeth, or high tails it outta there.

A good driver would aim for a ditch or open field instead of the car....but if you don't actually hit the other car, you will be charged for "leave roadway unsafe manner".

Same deal if you " had to lay'er down"...you fell BEFORE the impact, so the cop and car driver could argue that you were already crashing before the car was involved. They would say YOU slid into the car.

HorizonXP is 100% right.
Never lay the bike down. Crashing to avoid a crash is ridiculous. Anyone who does this is simply a bad rider, or at the very least, unprepared. You always have more opportunity, and chance to find an escape path when the bike is rolling, upright, on two wheels. WHile braking and steering, you at least have some chance of accident avoidance. The moment you succumb to "having to lay 'er down, you have 100% guaranteed that you will be involved in a crash.....and a high probability exists that you could be charged.

A bike will stop in a much shorter distance on rubber tires, than plastic and metal skimming along the asphalt......and has anyone given any thought to what may happen when the cage behind you runs your *** over when you "lay 'er down"? Human speed bump anyone?

STOLEN FROM TRIUMPHRAT BOARD:

Have you heard this before? Its a phrase used by someone who crashed a bike, and tries to justify his bad riding by explaining that in the midst of an impending accident, he elected to somehow get the bike to fall onto its side, and slide along the road - rider alongside. There's a guy at work who thinks he knows how to ride, and during discussions about biking he keeps telling me that one of the first things "they" taught him was to "lay a bike down." When I asked at lunch today what the correct technique is to physically get a motorcycle traveling upright in a straight line to suddenly fall over onto its side and slide along the road, he couldn’t answer right away. After some thought, he suggested that he would slam the rear brake on, causing the rear tire to slide, and simultaneously turn the bars to “lay her down.” I suggested that this in fact would probably induce a high side that would eject him from the bike instead. A that point he looked confused, and answered with a “well, thats what they taught me.”
“They” could be anybody - mom, dad, uncle who think they know how to ride and simply are passing on bad information.
I “laid her down” is simply another meaning for “I crashed, and the bike fell over.”
A rider should maintain control of his/her cycle at all times. Personally, I would rather bring my bike to a controlled emergency stop, before ever find myself picking it up off the ground. Good riding technique includes constant, and monitored awareness of your surroundings - adjusting your speed, position, correct gear and acceleration to avoid an emergency BEFORE it ever happens. Most modern bikes have tremendous braking power. Learn how to perform a correct, progressive emergency stop that uses the maximum potential of your front braking capacity. An upright motorcycle at maximum braking force will stop much faster that one sliding sideways on plastic and steel down a roadway. Not to mention having a 500 lb bike on top of your legs while skimming down the asphalt is going to hurt.....

thank you for some sense...

i was facepalming at the notion of laying your bike down as opposed to staying in the bike. WTF?!

DERP DERP DERP

 

[polo]

OK, I understand the insurance claim aspect of the issue. It makes me shake my head at it all. I see your point. From a bodily stand point, I suppose a first reaction wouldn't be to continue towards an object which is going to cause pain.

Hopefully any situation someone can can be found in will have had better foresight and make this avoidable. I read somewhere here to ride like your invisible. I like that remark.

 

[GixxerSixxer87]

Yes the main thing is we all hope your buddy is ok, but this thread brings up some good points about emergency stopping and not ghost riding our bikes like when we were 8

 

[S500K]

In March, on of my first rides around the block almost nailed a car. (3 lane street, Eglinton / Kennedy) Old lady in far right lane driving along, me about 50 feet behind and in far left lane with no one else on the road for about 70m behind. All of a sudden, she cuts over all 3 lanes and around a median and makes an illegal U.

Aside from the really bad lane changes - what was illegal about her U-turn?


***Sign that had a red circle and line through it, meaning NO U TURNS***

 

[HorizonXP]

OP, I didn't mean to sound insensitive in my posts. I'm glad your buddy is ok, hopefully he gets back on soon, and I'm also glad the other driver got charged. It's a rarity to see that happen.

And thanks for the backup everyone. I only started riding last year. I've read a LOT of stuff, and talked to lots of people, so it's good to know that I'm not talking crazy talk.

 

[MacDoc]

Re: Buddy crashed this morning!

As much as some of you think you could full out emerge brake in the rain in a spit second, I think you would likely end up on the ground. And thats pretty much what happened.​

truth

I dont think he wanted to lay it down, but the front wheel slid wide during breaking, thus causing the bike to go down.

Now that would be worth knowing as that's important but I expect given the weather and conditions we know the answer......still - I think we would all like to know if you get a chance to ask him.
Also did his bike have ABS?

All that really matters is that he is doing ok,

Yup, big time.

but it could have been alot worse.

yup

The lady that pulled the U was charged.

+1
​

and

 

[polo]

Also did his bike have ABS?

I don't think this should really be a factor. ABS is a fairly recent addition to most road bikes. The emergency braking technique has been around for longer than that.

Yes, ABS would make any motorcycle a little safer, but rider skill and confidence can't be replaced even with the most high tech of gadgets.

Speaking of which, I don't know how much safer even something like the below would be in a serious accident....

 

[Xhumeka]

So what do you recommend as an alternative... If you are going to run into a car, you suggest _____________________???

I think I misunderstood what he was saying... I thought he meant if you're going to hit a car, HIT IT GOOD (so insurance pays out well).

Obviously it's better to stay on the bike and brake (as opposed to trying to lay it down - good luck with that, at least in my situation). If my gf wasn't behind me and I was quick enough (and skilled/athletic enough) jumping off super-man style and tucking and rolling on landing may not have hurt so much - but that sounds like something from a movie

 

[MacDoc]

I tend to disagree to a point - the idea of ABS is that frees the rider from the concern over tire slip ( not entirely but big time better than 90% of the riders ).
Just like the airline safety board - going over the various factors involved in any accident makes us all better informed riders.
What the bike was equipped with, the weather, the rider's experience, speed etc are all factors.

Going down without ABS on a wet day is more understandable than without. It IS a factor.

ABS was first developed in 1929 for aircraft and entered into general use on automobiles in the 70’s. In 1981 BMW introduced ABS on a motorcycle. Early in the 21st century, ABS is now becoming more routinely available on motorcycles, either as standard equipment or as an option.
But what the heck is ABS? To begin with, an Anti-Lock Braking System incorporates computerized sensors to determine when a wheel is on the verge of locking-up. It then gives instant instructions to the brakes to release and re-apply braking pressure (pumping) a whole bunch of times per second, while you are steadily engaging the brakes.
What results is slowing and/or stopping without skidding. (A skidding tire has less traction than one that is not skidding).
And they are very easy to use. In an emergency situation on an ABS bike, just apply the brakes hard! Do not manually pump your brakes. Aggressive braking will initiate the ABS system automatically and the rider can concentrate on the immediate threat — and not the brakes.
That’s the good news.
On the other hand, many experienced riders can bring their non-ABS bike to a stop faster than an ABS equipped bike, by way of well-practiced, efficient, front and rear braking — particularly on clean, dry pavement. The question is can you do that under the stress of a life-threatening, panic-braking scenario? And even more to the point, how refined are your emergency braking skills on wet or dirty roads?
If you have attended a motorcycle event in which BMW was one of the participating vendors, you may have seen their demonstration and/or video where they compare the braking performance of ABS and non-ABS equipped bikes on flooded pavement. The demo-motorcycles are equipped with outriggers, to prevent the bikes from completely going down. The bikes are each ridden into several inches of water whereby they apply emergency braking. The non-ABS motorcycle loses control, falls over onto the outriggers and spins out. However, the bike with ABS makes a controlled, straight-line stop.

http://motorcycle-intelligence.com/motorcycle-anti-lock-braking-system-abs/37/

 

[Xhumeka]

No one mentioned doing it dirt-bike style, and treating the car like a big fat log! Just wheelie-bump over it!!!

(of course witnesses would report your pre-accident wheelie and you would be charged with stunting)

 

[AdRath]

Glad your buddy is doing ok and the lady was charged. I've almost been smoked by a cab doing a U-turn before and even though I had this anticipation of him doing it and slowed down in advance it was still too close.

Another driver technique I've been noticing lately is turning right from the left lane. I've almost gotten clipped a few times by that one.

 

[MacDoc]

even though I had this anticipation of him doing it and slowed down in advance it was still too close.

bingo ....good for you.
a good dose of horn high beams at the the same time to scare the ***** of them might save some other rider

 

[kiwi]

Hmm...
Many years ago when I did my rider training in NZ, the course that's similar to the m2 exit here we learnt how to emergency brake on gravel, how a rear wheel skid felt like and also discussed the pros and cons of laying a bike down and how to collide with a car .
We spend a good length of time covering this .
Oh and also how to steer yourself if you are sliding down the road.

 

[Pure]

What I do in those situations is brake as hard as I can with both brakes without locking the tires up and ease up on them if I slow down enough to know I'm not going to hit them. I rather hit someone slow then slide high.

 

[1WheelDrive]

I'm absolutely serious.

What speed do you think you'll contact the car if you are on the brakes? 100 km/h? 50 km/h? Unlikely. You will likely be travelling anywhere from 10-30 km/h when you contact the car, provided you were on the brakes and kept it upright.

Then what? Are you hitting the car? No, your bike's front end probably will. That's a good amount of metal and plastic that will absorb a bunch of the impact. Now, it's not like a car, which is designed with crumple zones, but it's not like our bikes are built like tanks. Your front end will shatter and go flying in a bunch of pieces, much like F1 cars do. Again, even more energy absorbed, thus not affecting you.

The remaining energy? Yeah, that'll be transferred into you somehow. That will hurt, and it will suck. But guess what? You did everything possible to stop in time, and it didn't work, and you minimized the amount of energy you absorbed.

I'm all for doing everything you possibly can on two weels before it's go time, but if you hit a car doing 30 and try to stay on the bike?... you will wreck yourself. Don't get it twisted, the actual impact itself will feel no different than letting someone hit you with a car doing 30km/h, head on, while you sit still on your bike. I assure you, physics is not on your side.

I will choose my legs and well-being over trying to avoid an insurance premium hike every time.

"laying er down" is usually code for "I lost it."

 

[shanekingsley]

Hitting a car at 30km/hr hurts. If you didn't have any time to react, or if the opposing car caught you off guard (it happens!), at 50 km/hr it's enough to break both your wrists and launch you over your crumpled bike and onto the vehicle you just hit. It's fast enough that you can manage to do a somersault in the air and bounce off their windshield and then onto the pavement several feet away. On the way up through your launch over their car, and depending on your gear, you may also heavily damage your knees as they impact the bars and your back as you hit either their windshield the pavement.

I agree that it sucks that if you happen to try to avoid a collision based on on someone else's gross negligence and lay the bike down in the process, that our system of rules, laws and insurance will deem you wholly at fault or partially at the least when you may have prevented serious injury to yourself.

I totally agree that it is safer to always try and stop the bike while on the wheels with the best emergency brake you can muster, but don't be disillusioned with the potential outcome of a seemingly slow crash. That kind of ignorance is changed quickly through experience.

 

[ross]

Simply always run your high-beam in the daytime!
I've been doing it for ~35 years, it's a no-brainer.
Nobody turns left or pulls out in front of me...
(famous last words)
Heheh, you've still gotta be alert!
Complacency and a drifting mind while riding can muss you up quick.
Not saying it would've helped buddy there - for that you need high-beam (and prayer).

if you see a car with high beams behind you, it is me
hope you will reconsider your habit with high beams and treat other motorists respectfully
cheers

 

[omnivore]

In daylight hours, I always ride with high beams on. Ad have been for 22 yrs.

Forum Sponsor