One black flag is just a slap on the peepee .. continously getting them isnt a trophy. Its removal from that track for the day .
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One black flag is just a slap on the peepee .. continously getting them isnt a trophy. Its removal from that track for the day .
stormcat
Well-known member
Really? When would that be? I've never ridden with you. And I find it funny that at every track day someone comes up to me and compliments an aspect of my riding.
Sircastic, what constructive criticism? I saw a lot of assumptions being made. Not a single person asked anything. E.g., "did you brake on the straight to let your bf go by?" or "why did he show you the lines instead of a 'professional'?" Etc., etc.
I still don't see why people are taking issue with passing slower riders on the straight if you leave plenty of room. I understand the 250s were in Intermediate on the first session. Were they forming a conga line behind the 250s? LOL
EDIT: And by the way, Donovan, it was a year ago I PMed you inquiring about hiring you as a track coach. But yeah, my 'attitude' on the track is suspect. *eye roll*
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Posts 61 and 63 to start. Someone died last year at Bogie doing the same sort of thing between corners 4 and 5.
stormcat
Well-known member
One person says don't speed up like that on the straight, and the other person said not to slow down.
I addressed both, or at least I thought I did.
1. What's the problem with speeding up and passing if the way is open and clear? Everyone speeds up on the straight. There were much faster riders than me blowing past me on the straight too. I didn't find it problematic, didn't freak me out or anything.
2. If I'm going faster than the slower bikes, but I'm not WOT, what's the problem? I didn't touch the brakes, roll off the throttle, etc. I.e., maintained a consistent speed.
My understanding of what happened at 'Bogie last summer is that someone radically moved in their lane position instead of just holding their line. Of course, there are a lot of explanations circulating about what happened.
The problem is not being predictable on the track. Down the straights people expect the other bikes to be accelerating. If you can't count on the riders being predictable then it's more dangerous. In fact, there was an accident during practice last weekend (CSBK) where a rider did the same thing and slowed on the back straight.
The accident at Bogie was a bike being slow on the race line.
You have been given advice from some reasoned riders / racers that have said this isn't safe. Instead of arguing whether it's safe or not try taking the advice under consideration.
stormcat
Well-known member
This was my point, though. I didn't touch the brakes or roll off until I got up to eyesight of the braking markers for T8.
Are you guys confusing what Tony did with being me? Where he stayed with the 250s, then nailed the throttle when I passed him? If that's what you're referring to, then yes, I can see the point where his action is being unpredictable.
That actually leads me to question though. Is it not the job of the person passing to ensure they pass safely? Regardless of how fast/slow the rider is in front of them? That's what's always being drilled into us at TDs. There's a lot of variation in speeds at the track.
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You've deleted the video now, but going by memory...the part I think most of us were mentioning was around the 1:46 mark you came to the crest while slowing(!!!) then banged down 2 or 3 or 4 gears and accelerated again.
I think I may just stay in the kitchen, instead of hopping on the track this sunday...:razz:
stormcat
Well-known member
I can't remember the rest of the video(or what I had for lunch some days) but whoever that was...that can get someone killed
Passing has nothing to do with coming up on a bike doing half your speed or drafting a bike that rolls off the throttle without warning or reason.
stormcat
Well-known member
Whew! Ok. I thought you guys were upset with me for passing in the straight and I was getting quite confused. No, NO, NOOOOO, I so would not pull what Tony pulled there. I wouldn't do 1/10th the crap he does... which is why I won't even ride on the street with him anymore.
But I will talk to him about this.
this
stormcat
Well-known member
The times I pass people are because they're going at a much slower pace than I want to ride. Not for competitive reasons. Hence the reason I'll never race. LOL
This is why I try not to go to work to often. Stormcat, your video made me shudder. It was like a "What NOT to do at a Track Day" instructional video. In fact, they should show it before track days to beginners. It was horrible. Beginners should aim to be smooth and predictable. You and Tony (whoever the **** he is) were going in a straight line. If you can't do that part of the track correctly then you need to get off the track. You don't need to pin the throttle open but you need to be smooth, consistent and at least make an attempt to keep up with traffic. Would you dare slow down on the 401 like that for no reason without brake lights? I think not.
Take the advice given and move on. There's enough old heads on here (me not included) who think the riding was horrible, dangerous and silly. Don't try to defend it.
Take the advice given and move on. There's enough old heads on here (me not included) who think the riding was horrible, dangerous and silly. Don't try to defend it.
THIS is why a number of experienced riders in this thread are pointing out the issue. This is not a game of lawn bowling. And the big track at Mosport (or Calabogie) is a far different ball game from TMP, GB, RDT, or even Shannonville. At Mosport or Calabogie, there are straightaways long enough to get some very serious speed difference. If things go wrong, people get very badly hurt or killed. It is NOT a trivial matter.
My post was made without regards for who was riding what bike. There are several riders in that video who are being dangerous.
Yes, it is the job of the person passing to do it safely. BUT.
Mosport (and Calabogie) have places on the track with blind spots. The rider coming up from behind at full speed comes over a crest and is not able to see what is happening on the other side of that crest. Sure, it's that rider's responsibility to pass safely. But if the rider in front does something unpredictable, and you are going 280+ km/h, there is only SO much braking or direction changing that is even physically possible.
I have told the story of why I don't do track days at Calabogie or Mosport any more (and seldom do any other track days) - I prefer racing, because the situation that I am about to describe does not occur - but I will re-tell the tale for those who haven't read it.
Calabogie, approaching corner 5. There is a pretty good long straightaway leading up to this, then it crests a hill into the braking zone. Naturally, I am WFO on my FZR400 race bike. Coming over the crest I see a slower rider who is leftish-middle of the track (wrong line, should be all the way left, in preparation for the upcoming right). At that time I had a snap decision to make. Passing that rider on the right would put me waaay on the wrong side of the track and would require considerably more braking - not a viable option. At the moment that I made the decision to pass that slower rider in the braking zone on the outside, there was probably 3 bike widths available on the left side. Not a problem - plenty of space.
Then the slower rider decided that they were in the wrong spot on the track ... and moved left (towards where they theoretically "should" be).
Uh oh. That spot that I was aiming for, was rapidly disappearing as the rider moved towards the left. It was too late to change my mind and go around to the right. I couldn't brake any harder ... the back wheel was already skipping off the ground. I had to pass even further to the left and hope that the rider didn't go all the way to the left. I passed by with my front wheel on the edge of the white line with inches to spare. It was FAR too close for comfort.
I don't know what else I could have done. Sure, it's the responsibility of the rider behind (me) to do a safe pass. But it's also the responsibility of ANY rider to behave in a manner which is predictable to others. I always stress the importance of going STRAIGHT on straightaways - straight to where your turn-in point is - do not change direction - if you decide partway down the straight that you are aiming for the wrong spot then STAY THE COURSE, don't change your mind, live with your wrong decision on that lap and fix it on the next lap.
If I had hit that other rider, it would have been ugly. And this was at FZR400 top speed (200-ish km/h if I'm lucky). Add another 60 or 80 km/h for a 600 or Superbike in that spot - maybe more.
By the way, this was in red group.
I haven't been to either Calabogie or Mosport since.
N3WMAN
Well-known member
You and Tony need to stop riding the track together. This is not a couples retreat. You should both be riding your own rides and stop trying to ride together on track. All of Tony's erratic riding was to wait for or follow you.
If you want to learn the lines ask the trackday organizer and they will get a control rider to go with you. As much as I think Tony is a nice guy he is no pro and you shouldn't consider him one.
I'm surprised Stacy stayed out there with all that **** going on.
If you want to learn the lines ask the trackday organizer and they will get a control rider to go with you. As much as I think Tony is a nice guy he is no pro and you shouldn't consider him one.
I'm surprised Stacy stayed out there with all that **** going on.
^ Also, don't EVER ride for the camera. Juggling positions on the track in order to be on someone else's camera involves doing things that are unpredictable to others. Speeding up or slowing down or following unusual lines, etc. Being unpredictable to others on the racetrack, and particularly when the stakes are as high as they are at Mosport, is BAD NEWS.
If you have a camera on your bike, or if a buddy has a camera on their bike ... ride as if it is not there. The camera shows what it shows. Don't change your riding in any way.
If you have a camera on your bike, or if a buddy has a camera on their bike ... ride as if it is not there. The camera shows what it shows. Don't change your riding in any way.
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