Are Unions done?

gwelfmike said:
Harper offers a "grant" or "rebate" of up to 5 million dollars to the purchasers of locomotives , but the catch is, you must purchase the locomotives from EDO, so what is the difference between the 5 millions going to the purchaser or the seller????
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It's close to the same IF the manufacturer opts to exploit the rebate by raising prices rather than increasing sales. But if the incentive was properly structured then they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by doing so, meaning it's unlikely that the rebate was a direct benefit to the manufacturer in the way that a grant would have been.
 
Globalization is killing unions. I just read that apple pays its Foxconn China employees £203 per month. How much does an iPhone cost again? I guess free trade wasn't a good idea after all.

And this: only 17% (excluding farm workers) are in private sector unions in Canada. In the states that number is 7%. I don't think unions are solely to blame for the decline in jobs in the US and Canada; but they are in decline though. There's just more competition for gigs.... In this country I think were going to see a huge decline in living conditions for more people. SMH.
 
I am not saying that tax breaks for investing in new equipment is bad, but when only one manufuacturer benefits than there is no difference where tax break is awarded to.

If the Harper government would have said they were offering $5 million in tax incentives for small and medium sized business to purchase more fuel efficent pick up trucks, then it would of beneifted a number of companies, including the different truck manufactures.

Besides, how far does $5 million go when you are talking about purchasing a product that costs between $2 to $2.5 million dollars to purchase anyway.


caboose483 said:
Tax breaks for investing in new equipment or capital expenditure is pretty common. Good for the company that's buying the locos, good for the people that maintain and operate them, good for the company that sells them, good for the suppliers and vendors to the company that builds them.

Giving a grant to the manufacturer may or may not benefit anyone else. Given that EMD has been losing money it's possible that they'd simply use it to get them $5 million closer to running in the black and it wouldn't really accomplish anything.[/QUOT
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gwelfmike said:
I am not saying that tax breaks for investing in new equipment is bad, but when only one manufuacturer benefits than there is no difference where tax break is awarded to.

If the Harper government would have said they were offering $5 million in tax incentives for small and medium sized business to purchase more fuel efficent pick up trucks, then it would of beneifted a number of companies, including the different truck manufactures.
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There is a difference. As I already outlined. How much corporate tax is generated from a business that lost $16 million in 2010?

Cash for klunkers? That was available for everyone. I'm not sure if it was a federal or provincial program though.
 
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OpenGambit said:
The plant was going down anyway, 5 mill is a drop in the bucket at that point. Canada should be focusing on its competitive industries, not trying to prop up dying ones.

Thats why we dont' have people still making VHS and CD players.

Edit: In today's union news.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/07/world/europe/greece-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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LOL keep giving us our pensions and government jobs.... what do you mean you dont have money... thats it, were going on strike, how dare you decide to stop us avoiding our taxes.
 
turbodish said:
The general public might be a bit more sympathetic if unions were stripped of the "right" to use picket lines to barricade and hold an employer under siege conditions, impeding the right of the general public to come and go as they wish without delay.

The Toronto garbage strike of the other year forced people to drop garbage off at local temporary drop-offs, where union siege lines forced already ******-off residents to wait while picketers imposed a completely arbitrary "delay" on each person waiting in line. Striking bus drivers in York blocking entrances and allowing cars through only after what they thought was an appropriate delay. Striking education workers blocking entrances to campuses and allowing students and non-striking staff through only after arbitrarily-defined delays. Picket line violence, both by union members and by people ****** off at being held hostage by them.

And you wonder why people have lost respect and sympathy for unions? Strip them of the ability to hold picket blockades.
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Do you feel the same way about lockouts?
 
nobbie48 said:
The above is generally true but it only works if both sides use some basic intelligence. Unfortunately most workers hear what they want to hear and the pro-union promise more of everything convinces them that they deserve a bigger piece of the pie. Management reacts accordingly.

Petty politics enters the fray as well. If you aren't popular with the union steward (Maybe you weren't greedy enough) and at the same time your job becomes at risk, the union fails to side with you on a grievance.
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Nothings perfect. As long as people are involved, so will their self-interests, emotions, and short-comings. You can have the same petty politics without a union.
 
turbodish said:
The general public might be a bit more sympathetic if unions were stripped of the "right" to use picket lines to barricade and hold an employer under siege conditions, impeding the right of the general public to come and go as they wish without delay.

The Toronto garbage strike of the other year forced people to drop garbage off at local temporary drop-offs, where union siege lines forced already ******-off residents to wait while picketers imposed a completely arbitrary "delay" on each person waiting in line. Striking bus drivers in York blocking entrances and allowing cars through only after what they thought was an appropriate delay. Striking education workers blocking entrances to campuses and allowing students and non-striking staff through only after arbitrarily-defined delays. Picket line violence, both by union members and by people ****** off at being held hostage by them.

And you wonder why people have lost respect and sympathy for unions? Strip them of the ability to hold picket blockades.
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The union stance I believe is that they have the right to use the sidewalk in front of their place of employment and there's no minimum walking speed. Defining harrassment, threat or delay is subject to interpretation. Coffee could accidently get spilled on you.

If four or five guys just happened to be standing on a public sidewalk discussing the economy while blocking the entrance to a store is there any law regarding unlawful assembly or why they have to give way to a potential customer? The unions think not. Rude inconsideration isn't illegal.

How does a person making say $35 an hour, think he/she is going to get any sympathy from a person making less and being inconvenienced to boot.
 
nobbie48 said:
Are we talking deflation? That would destroy the western economy. No one will hold onto shares of any company that will be worth less in the future.
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The downward trend in wages and increase in commodity prices within this province can only lead to deflation. Cut wages, people stop buying and business lay off employees because of low demand for product/services. It's a very real possibility here.
 
OpenGambit said:
The plant was going down anyway, 5 mill is a drop in the bucket at that point. Canada should be focusing on its competitive industries, not trying to prop up dying ones.

Thats why we dont' have people still making VHS and CD players.

Edit: In today's union news.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/07/world/europe/greece-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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I forgot to ask, besides natural resources and our banks, what are these competitive industries?
(Bombardier would be one also, can't think of much more?)
 
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murf said:
I forgot to ask, besides natural resources and our banks, what are these competitive industries?
(Bombardier would be one also, can't think of much more?)
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RIM :D

Realistically, we need some Crown Corps to cash in on the resources and then have that money invested in infrastructure projects. That creates jobs and supports tertiary industries in addition to raising wages. No chance in hell of it ever happening here though lol
 
murf said:
I forgot to ask, besides natural resources and our banks, what are these competitive industries?
(Bombardier would be one also, can't think of much more?)
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Magna, Linamar, and a whole bunch of subsidiaries and affiliates of each ...
 
murf said:
I forgot to ask, besides natural resources and our banks, what are these competitive industries?
(Bombardier would be one also, can't think of much more?)
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Well if you are taking out Financial sector and energy and natural resources, then that is pretty much a denial of the reality of the Canadian economy. I won't even mention Canadian real estate, but the companies that come ty mind are:

BCE, Brookfield, Onex, Celestica, Imax.

thats off the top of my head.
 
OpenGambit said:
Well if you are taking out Financial sector and energy and natural resources, then that is pretty much a denial of the reality of the Canadian economy. I won't even mention Canadian real estate, but the companies that come ty mind are:

BCE, Brookfield, Onex, Celestica, Imax.

thats off the top of my head.
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Did you miss the booze makers?
Would Bombardier even be on the list if they had to pay for the original Challenger jets?
 
nobbie48 said:
Did you miss the booze makers?
Would Bombardier even be on the list if they had to pay for the original Challenger jets?
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Hey its not supposed to be an exhaustive list. I was just showing some companies in Canada that are not banks/energy/natural resources.
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