Your entire average bill powers a lot more than just an EV though so that's not a fair comparison unless I'm missing something. You'd have to segregate out the EV portion only.
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Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?
- Thread starter PrivatePilot
- Start date
The "average" price you are paying per kWh probably isn't relevant, especially if you are charging overnight. I'm actually paying the incremental cost of overnight charging, and that's about 10 cents per kWh. At 16 kWh/100 km that's $1.60 per 100 km.
The fast chargers are charging about $0.50 per kWh ... $8 per 100 km. If you could get fuel consumption down to 5 litres per 100 km then it would be a wash, but for something that size, good luck.
I've still only ever done 2 trips that relied on fast charging (over 38,000 km). Most days I don't even charge to 100%, because I don't need it.
The fast chargers are charging about $0.50 per kWh ... $8 per 100 km. If you could get fuel consumption down to 5 litres per 100 km then it would be a wash, but for something that size, good luck.
I've still only ever done 2 trips that relied on fast charging (over 38,000 km). Most days I don't even charge to 100%, because I don't need it.
Oh, I thought he was justifying the ICE vehicle over the EV.
First the article is nonsense.
At our current hydro usage and driving distances adding an EV will increase our average monthly kWh usage by roughly 50%. For what that is worth. We also have lots of off peak usage now. Proper business/engineering economic analysis for ROI should include all flat fees etc. not just gravy skins. Other may be all about the skin on top of the gravy...
The are lots of variables... charge overnight, work nights need to charge during the day, oops have to use a for pay public charger.... gas prices up, gas prices down, NPV (my calcs are flat) regardless for us at the moment it still works out to an ROI longer than I am likely to own the vehicle, when we purchased new in 2020 and still holds if we had to buy new today. Bring back the super fat rebates, changes the game.
In Ontario, 50¢/kWh USD is crazy time (at least 3.5 times too high) but in some places in the US it may still be high but the ratio is much smaller (some places have very high rates). I just participated in a large study/exercise comparing this with real numbers and our electricity rates in USD (all in like I did) are competitive in the US--but there are some areas lower and some way higher)--how I knew mine in USD...
For a US article we also have to consider gas price differences. In the US that is currently an average of $1.077/l USD (we are $1.428/l USD). Using litres as it is easier.
If we transport ourselves to the USA... Drive 10,000 miles (16,000 km) per year, buy gas in the US. We are now much fatter so an modern economical car (Bolt size) is maybe 6.5l/100km. Electricity rates of 14¢/kWh (not far off). The cost difference is still in the range of $690 USD per year in favour of the EV. Then factor in NPV which will extend the ROI as the EV is more up front and future saving....
As (or if) EV prices come down it all gets better. Or as I said rebates. If road taxes are added to EVs that makes things worse again. Compare two much larger vehicles and make it all city driving, again that has a swing.
At our current hydro usage and driving distances adding an EV will increase our average monthly kWh usage by roughly 50%. For what that is worth. We also have lots of off peak usage now. Proper business/engineering economic analysis for ROI should include all flat fees etc. not just gravy skins. Other may be all about the skin on top of the gravy...
The are lots of variables... charge overnight, work nights need to charge during the day, oops have to use a for pay public charger.... gas prices up, gas prices down, NPV (my calcs are flat) regardless for us at the moment it still works out to an ROI longer than I am likely to own the vehicle, when we purchased new in 2020 and still holds if we had to buy new today. Bring back the super fat rebates, changes the game.
In Ontario, 50¢/kWh USD is crazy time (at least 3.5 times too high) but in some places in the US it may still be high but the ratio is much smaller (some places have very high rates). I just participated in a large study/exercise comparing this with real numbers and our electricity rates in USD (all in like I did) are competitive in the US--but there are some areas lower and some way higher)--how I knew mine in USD...
For a US article we also have to consider gas price differences. In the US that is currently an average of $1.077/l USD (we are $1.428/l USD). Using litres as it is easier.
If we transport ourselves to the USA... Drive 10,000 miles (16,000 km) per year, buy gas in the US. We are now much fatter so an modern economical car (Bolt size) is maybe 6.5l/100km. Electricity rates of 14¢/kWh (not far off). The cost difference is still in the range of $690 USD per year in favour of the EV. Then factor in NPV which will extend the ROI as the EV is more up front and future saving....
As (or if) EV prices come down it all gets better. Or as I said rebates. If road taxes are added to EVs that makes things worse again. Compare two much larger vehicles and make it all city driving, again that has a swing.
In that report they mention amortizing in the cost of the charger. It wasn't immediately obvious how that was dealt with. I suspect they did something dumb like assuming a $2000 charger and amortizing it over a couple years instead of the >10 years that would be reasonable. That could explain how their apparent $/kwh is so crazy high.
For 100 km a day, most of those vehicles would be fine with zero charger infrastructure and just plug into an existing 120V receptacle.
Now that there are more of them on the road, do electric vehicles have more accidents?
There are a few things that are different from ICE, such as better acceleration, running silently, tending to be smaller etc.
Wondering if we could finally put loud pipes to bed with a study?
There are a few things that are different from ICE, such as better acceleration, running silently, tending to be smaller etc.
Wondering if we could finally put loud pipes to bed with a study?
At anything above parking aisle speeds, electric cars aren't all that much quiter than most stock ice cars. Most of the noise at speed is tire/wind noise. Obviously, owners can't just remove a muffler to piss off everybody.
EVs generally aren't small ... a Ford Lightning is the same size as a regular F150 of the same body style (because it's the same bodyshell). A Ford Mach-e is not small. A Hyundai Ioniq 5 has a 3 metre wheelbase. The Bolt and Kona are the smallest long-range EVs, and they're the same size as a recent VW Golf (which is fine with me). Granted, we haven't seen EVs in the heavy-duty pickup class yet. The EV Cadillac Escalade is coming ... one of my last projects involved a weld cell for an inner body component for that. It's sure to be enormous.
I'm not aware of a difference in collision involvement. All of these EVs are modern vehicles with modern crash structures and safety features. The center of gravity tends to be low, which is good for roll-over mitigation (less likely to happen) and that's good, because roll-overs are among the most dangerous types of crashes. Insurance rates for my non-Tesla might perhaps be a proxy for collision involvement, and they aren't anything special, neither good nor bad. (Teslas are infamously expensive to repair)
Fast acceleration can be a double edged sword ... it can get someone out of trouble, or it can get someone into trouble. Most modern vehicles are fast enough to do either. Being modern vehicles, they've all got traction and stability control. Bolt is motor-RPM-limited to 150 km/h, and most EVs have artificial top-speed limiters in the interest of (a) battery, inverter, and drive unit thermal management and (b) helping preserve at least some sensible amount of range in the event of the driver being stupid. For that matter, a good many modern vehicles of all types have artificial top-speed limiters - tire ratings being one factor.
Interesting. I've had a couple of people tell me that they had to be more careful around pedestrians, and cyclists, since the car was quiet.
Anecdotal of course.
They have an eight adult passenger EV out yet? Lightning was first produced in 2022.
At some point it will come, but the majority of EV's currently on the road will still be smaller for a while.
In my personal experience…the Volt sneaks up on pedestrians and it gets annoying as Gen2 doesn’t have the quiet ‘friendly’ horn to warn pedestrians of someone behind them. Only the normal horn which I don’t like using for pedestrian warnings.
Barf. 340,000 USD. Things were going ok until the C pillar and then all effort was wasted.
www.caranddriver.com
2024 Cadillac Celestiq Is the Brand's $340K Hand-Built Flagship EV
Caddy's battery-electric flagship aims to take on the likes of Rolls-Royce and Bentley in an attempt to prove the American luxury brand is still the standard of the world.
www.caranddriver.com
For those banging the hydrogen drum, fuel cell rail was tried in Germany. In theory, that's a good fit as it is expensive to electrify 1000 km of track so you have some budget for a filling station. Abandoned after a year. $100M lit on fire. Issues including operation, refueling and high cost. They are going to try battery electric next as they think it is far cheaper.
qz.com
The dream of the first hydrogen rail network has died a quick death
Germany's Lower Saxony government started running 14 hydrogen trains in August 2022
qz.com
How much money do you have? (Less than it takes for the Celestiq)
www.roadandtrack.com
Been working on a few bits and pieces for these; enough to know that it's the same as a Silverado EV underneath, and shares basic suspension and steering components and the big battery pack, which is the same as the one in the Hummer EV and the long-range version of the Silverado EV. The 4-wheel-steering feature is built into the BT1XX vehicle platform, although not all versions of the Silverado EV have it (still the same suspension bits - it just uses fixed-position steering arms instead of a power steering rack for the versions that don't).
I have some idea how many GM is planning to build, and considering the price tag, it is not a small number. I have a funny feeling that the number that I've seen may include some lesser variants.
The 2025 Cadillac Escalade IQ Brings 750 HP and 450-Mile Range, $130,000 Price Tag
The American express is going electric. It hasn't gotten any less excessive.
www.roadandtrack.com
Been working on a few bits and pieces for these; enough to know that it's the same as a Silverado EV underneath, and shares basic suspension and steering components and the big battery pack, which is the same as the one in the Hummer EV and the long-range version of the Silverado EV. The 4-wheel-steering feature is built into the BT1XX vehicle platform, although not all versions of the Silverado EV have it (still the same suspension bits - it just uses fixed-position steering arms instead of a power steering rack for the versions that don't).
I have some idea how many GM is planning to build, and considering the price tag, it is not a small number. I have a funny feeling that the number that I've seen may include some lesser variants.
Our plug in hybrid Niro has passed the 12 000 kms and likely will be in the 20 000 km/year by the 1 year anniversary
Still running at the 2.1 litre/100 km
It pushes up higher on the long trip weekends but a week of local running gets it back down to that 2.1 to 2.2 l average again.
Still running at the 2.1 litre/100 km
It pushes up higher on the long trip weekends but a week of local running gets it back down to that 2.1 to 2.2 l average again.
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