Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 398 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Just had a longish Uber in Ioniq....very impressive.
Huge range - 500-600k ...very comfortable. Said he loses 10% with ac on.
ioniq_5_performance_desktop.jpg
One of my wifes coworkers has one. They have nothing bad to say about it.
 
Just had a longish Uber in Ioniq....very impressive.
Huge range - 500-600k ...very comfortable. Said he loses 10% with ac on.
ioniq_5_performance_desktop.jpg
I’ve heard and read good things. Only problem is price and availability.
 
Also, for the first time, I've seen in person the thing that's been keeping us busy for months, BV1HX a.k.a. the GM Brightdrop delivery van. I saw two brand new unmarked vans on the back of a flatbed on 401 eastbound near Woodstock (they're built in Ingersoll). They're not much to look at ... it's a great big box on wheels with absolutely flat sides, basically a new version of a FedEx or UPS box van.
 
Any EV owners here planning to switch (or already did) to the new ultra-low overnight plans?

These are the rates my power company will offer:

356137a9e301f08f019ca3f98cca1fe5.jpg


And this is what I'm paying now:

16e84c590117f922f4bf597d1122b5c6.jpg
 
Any EV owners here planning to switch (or already did) to the new ultra-low overnight plans?

These are the rates my power company will offer:

356137a9e301f08f019ca3f98cca1fe5.jpg


And this is what I'm paying now:

16e84c590117f922f4bf597d1122b5c6.jpg
It will be really hard for the new plan to be financially viable. It is best suited to time shifting using a battery bank. That could be an ev parked in the garage during the day (iirc hyundai is the only doing bidirectional now). Ideal setup would be tesla power wall or similar. Peak rate is punitive and would kill savings unless you are using a ton of super off peak power. A normal ev driver doesn't need to charge nearly enough to make the rates make sense.
 
Yeah but that 2.4 cent rate is really tempting, it would make driving incredibly cheap. Not that the 7.4 cents I'm currently paying is bad...

All you have to do is avoid using power as much as possible 4pm-9pm on weekdays. I don't know how doable that is for other households but for me I think it should be easy. I already don't cook dinner, I just cook lunch and eat that for lunch and dinner (or get takeout on days I work from the office). I usually only run my a/c for a few hours before bed on really hot days.
 
Yeah but that 2.4 cent rate is really tempting, it would make driving incredibly cheap. Not that the 7.4 cents I'm currently paying is bad...

All you have to do is avoid using power as much as possible 4pm-9pm on weekdays. I don't know how doable that is for other households but for me I think it should be easy. I already don't cook dinner, I just cook lunch and eat that for lunch and dinner (or get takeout on days I work from the office). I usually only run my a/c for a few hours before bed on really hot days.
21:00 to 23:00 is still midpeak on the ultra low plan. Your ac will be about 50% more expensive to run for a few hours before bed with the ultra low plan. How much do you drive the ev every single day. Thats the starting point. You probably run your a/c most days in the summer. Quick math is if your ev takes less hours to charge than your a/c runs, this is probably a loser.

Edit:
I still think this plan can make sense if you are using a battery bank and fully cycling it every day. Size the bank to deal with your daily 7am to 11 pm loads. Charge it from 11pm to 7am. With current equipment prices, breakeven is somewhere between 15 and 20 cents per kwh. With arbitrage of 21.6 cents you shpuld be positive. If you can use your car and avoid the most expensive part of the system (the battery), the payback happens much faster.
 
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Truth or fiction....
Mostly fiction. Pretending that their vehicles will have substantial solid state batteries by 2025 or that the new breakthrough battery will be in vehicles by 2027 is complete BS. Toyota is flopping around like a dead fish and trying not to look like they are dying. Hopefully, the breakthrough is actually real and commercially viable and makes it to vehicles within the next decade (but I wouldn't be surprised if this is complete vaporware to generate positive press/investments).
 
Truth or fiction....

There are a number of battery technologies under development and/or awaiting commercialisation. Solid-state batteries are one, lithium-sulfur is another, sodium-ion yet another. It's pretty likely that in another few years, battery energy density is going to be 50% - 100% higher than it is today. That's enough so that the combined weight and space of battery+electric powertrain is competitive with fuel tank+ICE powertrain for vehicles of comparable range, and when that happens, look out.

BUT ... That claimed charging rate, assuming we are dealing with a real practical vehicle, is not going to happen. Their range number is 1200 km converted to miles for the Americans, I'll stay with the metric number. Let's use 15 kWh per 100 km ... my Bolt will do better than that in decent weather at lower speeds, and not quite achieve that at motorway speeds but it isn't particularly aerodynamic ... 15 kWh per 100 km is a decent, achievable number for a practical vehicle without "hypermiling". This implies 12 x 15 = 180 kWh battery capacity. If one were to presume a doubling of today's battery energy density, that implies about the same battery size and weight as today but with twice as much energy inside.

Here's the problem. The energy has to come from somewhere. 180 kWh in 10 minutes implies a charging rate of 1.08 MW. And *THAT* is not going to happen. The CCS connector is rated (by standards, UL, CSA, etc) at max 1000 V, max 500 A, and the strongest charging stations today cap the combined voltage and current at 350 kW. Yes, I know North America appears likely to switch to Tesla's connector, which Elon Musk's pixies and fairy dust claim will charge at 1 MW, but the process of accepting this as an actual standard is likely to cap it at 1000 V and some unknown current that may slightly exceed that of CCS (the current-carrying pins are a smidge bigger, and some current Tesla vehicles can apparently pull 610 amps or thereabouts) but it's not going to be 1 MW. Maybe half that. (Still a lot.)

1200 km range for a 180 kWh battery capacity vehicle is only going to apply for a vehicle with very good aerodynamics, akin to Tesla 3 or S, Hyundai Ioniq 6, VW ID.7. It is NOT going to happen for something that looks like a pickup truck or a big square SUV or for anything towing a trailer.

And ... as an actual EV owner ... Neither the extreme range nor the extreme charging speeds are actually needed "for most people". 400 km is in the sweet spot for range, perhaps somewhat longer for a long-road-trip vehicle. And 20 minutes for 20% - 80% is fine. Coffee-break time. This implies battery capacity in the 60 - 80 kWh range, more for vehicles expected to tow trailers, and charging 60% of an 80 kWh battery (= 48 kWh) in 20 minutes implies around 150 kW charging rate. That's available today. Bigger batteries and faster charging rates are fine for vehicles expected to haul loads or tow trailers, but for a daily driver "car" (not overweight SUV), what's available today is fine.
 
There are a number of battery technologies under development and/or awaiting commercialisation. Solid-state batteries are one, lithium-sulfur is another, sodium-ion yet another. It's pretty likely that in another few years, battery energy density is going to be 50% - 100% higher than it is today. That's enough so that the combined weight and space of battery+electric powertrain is competitive with fuel tank+ICE powertrain for vehicles of comparable range, and when that happens, look out.

BUT ... That claimed charging rate, assuming we are dealing with a real practical vehicle, is not going to happen. Their range number is 1200 km converted to miles for the Americans, I'll stay with the metric number. Let's use 15 kWh per 100 km ... my Bolt will do better than that in decent weather at lower speeds, and not quite achieve that at motorway speeds but it isn't particularly aerodynamic ... 15 kWh per 100 km is a decent, achievable number for a practical vehicle without "hypermiling". This implies 12 x 15 = 180 kWh battery capacity. If one were to presume a doubling of today's battery energy density, that implies about the same battery size and weight as today but with twice as much energy inside.

Here's the problem. The energy has to come from somewhere. 180 kWh in 10 minutes implies a charging rate of 1.08 MW. And *THAT* is not going to happen. The CCS connector is rated (by standards, UL, CSA, etc) at max 1000 V, max 500 A, and the strongest charging stations today cap the combined voltage and current at 350 kW. Yes, I know North America appears likely to switch to Tesla's connector, which Elon Musk's pixies and fairy dust claim will charge at 1 MW, but the process of accepting this as an actual standard is likely to cap it at 1000 V and some unknown current that may slightly exceed that of CCS (the current-carrying pins are a smidge bigger, and some current Tesla vehicles can apparently pull 610 amps or thereabouts) but it's not going to be 1 MW. Maybe half that. (Still a lot.)

1200 km range for a 180 kWh battery capacity vehicle is only going to apply for a vehicle with very good aerodynamics, akin to Tesla 3 or S, Hyundai Ioniq 6, VW ID.7. It is NOT going to happen for something that looks like a pickup truck or a big square SUV or for anything towing a trailer.

And ... as an actual EV owner ... Neither the extreme range nor the extreme charging speeds are actually needed "for most people". 400 km is in the sweet spot for range, perhaps somewhat longer for a long-road-trip vehicle. And 20 minutes for 20% - 80% is fine. Coffee-break time. This implies battery capacity in the 60 - 80 kWh range, more for vehicles expected to tow trailers, and charging 60% of an 80 kWh battery (= 48 kWh) in 20 minutes implies around 150 kW charging rate. That's available today. Bigger batteries and faster charging rates are fine for vehicles expected to haul loads or tow trailers, but for a daily driver "car" (not overweight SUV), what's available today is fine.
‘most people’ & ‘fine’

Just had a thought;

Do most people live in houses or apartments? If it’s the latter do they have reliable charging access over night?

Maybe extreme charging isn’t needed, but it needs to get a lot better.
 
Certainly there's problems to be solved. Maybe some people need to charge at work (a number of my customers have chargers installed for doing this). Fast-chargers at grocery stores are another option (Superstore in Georgetown has a bunch). Maybe lighting poles need receptacles installed on them where on-street parking is available. Maybe parking meters also need to be charging stations.
 
Certainly there's problems to be solved. Maybe some people need to charge at work (a number of my customers have chargers installed for doing this). Fast-chargers at grocery stores are another option (Superstore in Georgetown has a bunch). Maybe lighting poles need receptacles installed on them where on-street parking is available. Maybe parking meters also need to be charging stations.
I mentioned it to senior management at Multimatic when I was there and this was during the rebate period. I got laughed out of the office.

./shrug
 
Cost to taxpayers to keep that battery plant going…16B. Apparently they reached a deal today.

 
Cost to taxpayers to keep that battery plant going…16B. Apparently they reached a deal today.

The vw plant was a giant stinker and now this one is too. Basically taxpayer is picking up all the wages for the entire staff for more than 5 years. In a tight labour market, that is a great way to bring inflation down. /s. Ahole politicians.
 

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