Afghanistan has fallen

[J_F]

Anyone else find it odd most of the large conflict zones today are where the brits were?
(india/pakistan, israel palistine, hong kong/china, afghanistan, etc etc etc)

not at all odd
Europeans have wreaked havoc everywhere they've colonized
intentions have not always been bad

"the natives will be better off with Christianity and Capitalism
worked for us, should work for them" is the thinking

I'm entertained how is doesn't work sometimes
like when the enlightened show up on the shores of North Sentinel Island

they're not big on bible salesmen there

 

[Maniac]

On the other hand - Brits were everywhere.

 

[GreyGhost]

On the other hand - Brits were everywhere.

And potentially used centuries of instability to gain a foothold and expand the empire. It's not like conflict is a recent development in those areas.

 

[Dimitri]

Send out a press release that he was stealing but keep 99% for yourself before you send out the release.

Probably, there hasn't been an American backed dictator "democratically" elected President who didn't make bank.

 

[nobbie48]

"Brave" and desperate enough to try and ride a plane to safety, but not brave and desperate enough to pick up a weapon and defend your country.
The president fleeing ahead of everyone else tells me all I need to know about these people.

Dead men don't win wars. How many people try to stop a looting spree when there's a summit conference here?

Here's an upcoming challenge. Go up against the corrupt government of Canada (All parties) , form an honest ethical one and run this country like it should be run.

In a way I can understand the Afghan leaders looting the country. There are so many sects (people that are similar in beliefs but won't accept compromise) that there will never be accord and meaningful mutual social progress so why not grab what you can. The country is screwed anyway. Kind of like Canada.

 

[nobbie48]

I don't want to sound heartless as I sense a horrible retribution as the Taliban sweeps through.

Obviously there was retribution in Vietnam but how bad was it?

Will this be another holocaust with millions slaughtered or will they just go after the leaders? Needless to say, half the population, females, will never see their potential and therefore the country will never see its full potential.

Minority groups that have achieved rights here, gender related, etc will see the other extreme.

Will the extremists tire of the blood?

From the evacuation standpoint, how do you form a rear guard against a massive relatively fast moving enemy that doesn't care one iota about human rights, diplomatic immunity, international law.

 

[LBV]

From some of the interviews I've seen with Taliban spokesmen, thy seem to have become more moderate. They're saying that the girls can still stay in school and get an education. Even saying that the embassies can stay open. Is it all a sham? Who knows.

Anyone else think that Biden was bang on yesterday with his speech?

Biden defends Afghanistan policy amid mounting criticism of withdrawal

"I stand squarely behind my decision," the president said on Monday. "After 20 years, I've learned the hard way that there was never a good time to withdraw U.S. forces."

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Dimitri]

Anyone else think that Biden was bang on yesterday with his speech?

Biden has never been bang on about foreign policy.

W.H. backs Biden on Gates remarks

Officials have not yet weighed in on some of Gates's more serious claims made against the president.

www.politico.com

“I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades,” Gates writes, according to a New York Times review of the book posted Tuesday.

 

[Maniac]

Anyone else think that Biden was bang on yesterday with his speech?

I do

 

[ToSlow]

Biden has never been bang on in anything yet

 

[LBV]

I'm specifically talking about the decision to move out of Afghanistan. Are some of you saying then that the USA should have stayed and continued to pour in billions of dollars and countless lives into a country that doesn't even want to defend itself and turns tail at the first opportunity?

Btw, I'm not judging all of Afghanistan the same way as there are countless #'s of good people there but the leaders seem to have only self-interests at heart.

 

[Evoex]

It was never about freeing the people of the Afghanistan anyways.

America at war is excellent for their economy.

/shrug

 

[bigpoppa]

but the leaders seem to have only self-interests at heart.

we talk about corruption here, but that level of corruption is next level


for a country that spends the most out of anybody by far on war, and spends almost all its time in a perpetual state of war fighting/bombing/invading/overthrowing others and is quite practiced at it, they sure seem to lose a lot.

Evidently war aint that easy

 

[Evoex]

we talk about corruption here, but that level of corruption is next level


for a country that spends the most out of anybody by far on war, and spends almost all its time in a perpetual state of war fighting/bombing/invading/overthrowing others and is quite practiced at it, they sure seem to lose a lot.

Evidently war aint that easy

Can’t win in that region unless you are prepared to take out all the players. Some of them have nukes.

 

[backmarkerducati]

You can't just thrust democracy on people that have never truly experienced it. It takes many many many decades with a slowish transition of bottom up power transfer to get it done. Once it becomes all that the people know, then it may stick. People will actually fight for it as it is all they know. This IMO is where the US continues to fail.

 

[Mad Mike]

not at all odd
Europeans have wreaked havoc everywhere they've colonized
intentions have not always been bad

"the natives will be better off with Christianity and Capitalism
worked for us, should work for them" is the thinking

I'm entertained how is doesn't work sometimes
like when the enlightened show up on the shores of North Sentinel Island

they're not big on bible salesmen there




View attachment 50570

Since the beginning of civilization there has been conquests, nothing new, nothing special. Romans, Egyptians, Mongols, Vikings.. and on a smaller scale you had Indigenous tribes around the globe that conquered rivals. That's what happens when you run out of resources, or you get greedy.

Conquests were supported by international law until the end of WWII. When a conqueror was able to overtake a target they were thought to have superior capabilities to govern it and keep it peaceful. In some places the conqueror allied or cooperated with the civilization they faced and rather than exercising their Right of Conquest they negotiated treaties to avoid military action.

Conquest only stayed where the indigenous civilization was subjugated or overwhelmed by migration. If either failed, the countries generally regained their independence.

 

[mimico_polak]

It was never about freeing the people of the Afghanistan anyways.

America at war is excellent for their economy.

/shrug

I expect a prompt ‘well…we need to go help them out again’ rhetoric soon enough.

Whether it be Biden, or the next guy only time will tell.

Or you know…just start a fight somewhere else. Maybe go after China for getting chummy with the Taliban?

Something something freedom…

 

[Evoex]

I expect a prompt ‘well…we need to go help them out again’ rhetoric soon enough.

Whether it be Biden, or the next guy only time will tell.

Or you know…just start a fight somewhere else. Maybe go after China for getting chummy with the Taliban?

Something something freedom…

Team America World Police

 

[mimico_polak]

Team America World Police

Somebody somewhere needs helping….hopefully they’re near oil.

 

[jc100]

Since the beginning of civilization there has been conquests, nothing new, nothing special. Romans, Egyptians, Mongols, Vikings.. and on a smaller scale you had Indigenous tribes around the globe that conquered rivals. That's what happens when you run out of resources, or you get greedy.

Conquests were supported by international law until the end of WWII. When a conqueror was able to overtake a target they were thought to have superior capabilities to govern it and keep it peaceful. In some places the conqueror allied or cooperated with the civilization they faced and rather than exercising their Right of Conquest they negotiated treaties to avoid military action.

Conquest only stayed where the indigenous civilization was subjugated or overwhelmed by migration. If either failed, the countries generally regained their independence.

I have Viking ancestry. I’m also pretty sure it’s more likely that my earlier ancestors couldn’t run very fast, not that they owned pointy horn hats.