Advise on restricting engine power please?

[09SV650S]

Seriously dude, you come off as insulting and belittling. Implying her death and my lack of common sense is uncalled for. You don't know me, my temperment, intelligence or character and to dismiss this whole discussion, and that's all that this is, as something reckless is rather cheap and condecending on your part.

Have you ever ridden a 1L ss? I am curious as to your riding experience the way you come off. I already told you mine. I could just as easily level those low comments back at you for riding a bike in the first place...complete with "organ doner" insults. That really is low dude.

I have rode a 1K and hence why I chose my 650 its enough power for me and my experience and my big body 6"4 230lbs and the insurance was right. oh and another great feature was the ABS for a newbie to street bikes....... so ya I chose common sense over my ego. If I would've gone the other way i'd have bought a busa.

Please Get over it. I'll stop posting, i dont want to hurt your feelings and/or cause you to lose sleep tonight.

Good luck

deuces

 

[awyala]

Anyone with ACTUAL experience restricting the power of an engine to advise on performance characteristics?

 

[awyala]

I have rode a 1K and hence why I chose my 650 its enough power for me and my experience and my big body 6"4 230lbs and the insurance was right. oh and another great feature was the ABS for a newbie to street bikes....... so ya I chose common sense over my ego. If I would've gone the other way i'd have bought a busa.

Please Get over it. I'll stop posting, i dont want to hurt your feelings and/or cause you to lose sleep tonight.

Good luck



deuces

Agreed I like the ABS feature. That could also be a mod from what I understand, as the intermittant braking is merely a rotor feature rather than an electronic one. It's about a $1500 upgrade coming from a dealer on a Ducati, so as an estimate it probably isn't more than $800 as a possible upgrade on any bike.

Interms of the SV650S, I found that bike's torquey nature to be quite poor for a starter bike, in fact less mannered than a 1L (especially under 7k rpm). The power delivery of the 10R as I mentioned before is quite tame in urban driving compared to both the SV650S and the ZX6R I had before. The SV650s lack of slipper clutch, jumpy low rev nature, actually make it a bike that requires a lot of clutch and rev matching skills. Personally I loved the bike, and found it borderline hooligan inspiring in every day conditions.

The sheer power and capacity of an engine doesn't tell the full story of a bike's nature or risk factors. For example I find hard braking into corners and throttle response on a the 10R much smoother and confidence inspiring (even with a throttle "rifleman" mod), compared to a 650 V-twin.

This is one of the reasons I am investigating the mod...I know the mod is possible...but I don't know how the engine will behave with the mod.

It would be good to hear from anyone who has actually ridden with the mod.

The second benefit of this mod, is that the the power restrictor costs about $200. I could try it out myself at some stage at very low investment and get a feel for the viability of this as a solution. However they are only available to sell to trades...so I would probably need to order it through a local dealer with restrictor experience also.

Here is a link if anyone is also interested:
http://www.fiinternational.com/ShowDetails.asp?name=ZX10R&type=Kawasaki

 

[rich6969]

I am not sure pulling plugs is a solution. I think it has a strange effect on power delivery. I once had a plug fail on me in the rain with my SV650S ( a problem for that bike ), and the engine became jumpy and irratic with a very inconsistant behavior.

I don't think an inline 4 behaves predictable and smoothly on 1 or even 2 cylinders.

I don't feel pulling plugs is a restricting solution.

Op pulling the plugs was a joke...even if you got that bike down to 1/4 of what it can do ..its still a big bike Heavy ect..... keep her safe get her a 250...

 

[awyala]

Here is Hitler's advice on a 10R with less power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsjZkJmC0II

 

[awyala]

Op pulling the plugs was a joke...even if you got that bike down to 1/4 of what it can do ..its still a big bike Heavy ect..... keep her safe get her a 250...

The difference between a 250 and the 1L is 50lbs...in case you missed it before. Weight is not a factor, if it isn't already too much for a small girl at the 250cc stage. 50lbs wont make it or break it when it's tipping...it's already gone. I already told her not to be concerned with damaging it, just bail and don't be concerned with saving it..."worry about you getting off it clean if it's falling in the parking lot or something." I don't want her troubled with my expectation to preserve the fairings. I want her instead to let it go and not get pinned under any machine, even the 250 (@ 375lbs wet!!!).

Like I said...if it is possible to share this bike (pending her restriction viability, and her learning skills), it would be expected this bike will take some fair cosmetic beatings as it would be a learning and a bit of a track whore. So again, weight is less of an issue, than ride height and input sensitivity as well as outright power.

Incidently the wet weight on those 250cc Vigaros at the M2 course is about 330lbs wet. She did very well indeed with that weight...no problems there. I'll get her to walk the 10R around the parking lot to see how she feels with the 100lbs increase to get a better idea. Hell after a certain point I can't save the 10R from falling too....also depending on where I happen to have placed my foot on the ground, it dramatically decreases my chances of a save.

We might get her into the gym for some squats to train for a bike! All jokes aside, it is important to know where that point of no return is in terms of saving a low speed tip, and when to give up and bail rather than risk getting pinned.

 

[09SV650S]

The difference between a 250 and the 1L is 50lbs...in case you missed it before. Weight is not a factor, if it isn't already too much for a small girl at the 250cc stage. 50lbs wont make it or break it when it's tipping...it's already gone. I already told her not to be concerned with damaging it, just bail and don't be concerned with saving it..."worry about you getting off it clean if it's falling in the parking lot or something." I don't want her troubled with my expectation to preserve the fairings. I want her instead to let it go and not get pinned under any machine, even the 250 (@ 375lbs wet!!!).



Like I said...if it is possible to share this bike (pending her restriction viability, and her learning skills), it would be expected this bike will take some fair cosmetic beatings as it would be a learning and a bit of a track whore. So again, weight is less of an issue, than ride height and input sensitivity as well as outright power.

I just googled it ......you're close a 250r ninja is 305/no fuel. a ninja 1k with abs is 507lbs no fuel. Your math is **** just saying.

 

[awyala]

I just googled it ......you're close a 250r ninja is 305/no fuel. a ninja 1k with abs is 507lbs no fuel. Your math is **** just saying.

Check again you're way way way off! You like your harsh conclusions don't you!!! hehehe. The 10R in 2009 was 430 wet. the 2012 250 ninja with its new features is 20lbs up on previous versions and comes in at 375 wet.

250 specs:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2012/kawasaki/ninja/250r/specifications/94331/05/other.html
wet weight @ 375lbs

ZX10r specs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ninja_ZX-10R
Weight wet @ 434lbs


by the way, I dropped nearly 15 to 20 lbs by dropping my cat.

So I got my bike nearly down to 420lbs wet. Stock cat and exhaust removed. M4GP exhaust in its stead.


By the way...the new bike I'm getting....1200cc...wet weight = 386lbs!!!!


As I say...I don't suspect weight is the major issue...its a bit of a red herring given that SS bikes have become so light over the years. The real danger is the power to weight ratio...with increased power and a lighter bike...the responsiveness is the real issue....hence why I even think dropping the 10R to 33hp, though it seems low...would be quite a fair ptw ratio due to how light the 10R actually is! It is actually lighter than my first FZ600 which had (due to poor running carbs) a reduced power of 60 ish hp, down from its factory spec 72. Even that I feel is too much for a noob. So 33bhp seems about right I think. I just don't know how the power will feel, how smooth and progressive and predicatable it will be.

 

[09SV650S]

Check again you're way way way off! The 10R in 2009 was 430 wet. the 2012 250 ninja with its new features is 20lbs up on previous versions and comes in at 375 wet.

250 specs:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2012/kawasaki/ninja/250r/specifications/94331/05/other.html
wet weight @ 375lbs

ZX10r specs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Ninja_ZX-10R
Weight wet @ 434lbs

So I got my bike nearly down to 420lbs wet. Stock cat and exhaust removed. M4GP exhaust in its stead.

by the way, I dropped nearly 15 to 20 lbs but dropping my cat.


By the way...the new bike I'm getting....1200cc...wet weight = 386lbs!!!!

Lots of conflicting dry&wet ratings for the 1K on the net...... but sounds like you're the expert with the experience and the one buying the super ultra light weight 1200cc bike.

I'd say let her ride it how it is. if the bike is not as responsive as you say in lower speeds then she'll learn how the bike drives. Why bother doing any mods?

 

[jeffjones]

The difference between a 250 and the 1L is 50lbs...in case you missed it before.

The ZX10R is actually almost 85lbs more then a CBR250 which may not be much but it is about 25% heavier.

 

[Bradsma]

I have 4 months of experience riding motorcycles and took my uncles TL1000 out for a spirited ride no issues. Not saying you should let your wife ride the bike but I'm also saying you shouldn't. Any bike only goes as fast as you want it too. It your bike your wife and your call I say. Look into the mods available and see whats the best route for you.

On a side note, when I had my turbo civic I had it dyno tuned to 260 WHP and 175 WHP. There may be an option to do something like this for your bike aswell.

 

[awyala]

Lots of conflicting dry&wet ratings for the 1K on the net...... but sounds like you're the expert with the experience and the one buying the super ultra light weight 1200cc bike.

I'd say let her ride it how it is. if the bike is not as responsive as you say in lower speeds then she'll learn how the bike drives. Why bother doing any mods?

I think I may just give the UK mod a try, and risk the $200. If it works I have a possible solution to report back to the thread on. I'll give it a try over the crappy winter months when I won't mind riding a weaker engine...as the roads are more risky. If I am happy with the muted but predictable delivery, I'll work on dulling the brakes slightly and seeing how she takes to it all around spring. If she is comfy in the parking lot then we can move on from there. If she likes riding and hates the bike....well then I'll look at selling and going for a 250 or 400. If she hates riding altogether I'll keep my bike for a track whore.

The reaon I find the restrictor necessary is that the bike does come on very strong from 7k rpm and onwards. I don't want her getting into an unexpected burst of power at high speeds. When she is ready and comfy with the bike at low speeds and after a good chunk of experience in all conditions we can look at derestricting.

I remember once I pulled up alongside this guy on a wet night...he had an Aprilia Mille...stunning bike...and he rode it like a Russian Faberge egg! He looked over to me and my 600 and said...man I really wish I had that bike now! That's why I really like the idea of rain modes on the new 1Ls where they can be restricted down to 120hp with a switch on the fly!!!

If this technology can be retrofitted that would be an ideal solution, to have a switch that could drop hp to various settings. Some new bikes out there have electronic suspension settings, so with 1 flick of the rain mode switch, the hp drops and the bikes suspension is adjusted to soft rain mode!!!

Check it out...the Ducati Multistrada 1200S has it!
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/122_1005_ducati_multistrada_1200s/photo_08.html

That would be a ***** to retrofit mind you!

 

[awyala]

I have 4 months of experience riding motorcycles and took my uncles TL1000 out for a spirited ride no issues. Not saying you should let your wife ride the bike but I'm also saying you shouldn't. Any bike only goes as fast as you want it too. It your bike your wife and your call I say. Look into the mods available and see whats the best route for you.

On a side note, when I had my turbo civic I had it dyno tuned to 260 WHP and 175 WHP. There may be an option to do something like this for your bike aswell.

TL1000 was a notorious hooligan machine. Bravo for the sharp learning curve!

Any more details on dyno tuning to desired hp levels? This is interesting. And is it easily reversed without going back to a mechanic?

 

[Bradsma]

As far as tuning to HP levels. I had to do a bunch of converting from OBD2 to OBD1 with a chipped ECU. The ECU was then professionally tuned on the Dyno. I had a switch under the dash that could be flipped at anytime to go from one to the other setting. I am new to motorcycles so I have no idea what the ECU tuning is like or if there is even anything like this around. Civics are known for there Lego like interchangability so bikes may not have this ability.

 

[awyala]

As far as tuning to HP levels. I had to do a bunch of converting from OBD2 to OBD1 with a chipped ECU. The ECU was then professionally tuned on the Dyno. I had a switch under the dash that could be flipped at anytime to go from one to the other setting. I am new to motorcycles so I have no idea what the ECU tuning is like or if there is even anything like this around. Civics are known for there Lego like interchangability so bikes may not have this ability.

As far as I know, the zx10r from 2009 wont have to be chipped....remapping should suffice. I have submitted a query with Power Commander asking if it is possible to utilize multiple maps, restricting, rather than derestricting power. There is also a bike mounted interface that I am wondering if it could provide easy swapping of maps on the fly.

In theory restricting should be possible as manufacturers ship cars in restricted form. The question is how far they can be restricted and targeting specific peak hp figures.

I'll post any responses from PC here if and when they come back.

 

[DaFrEnCh-TiCkLeR]

K seriously. The plugs was a joke dude, dont run a 4 cylinder on 2 plugs.

keep the 10, by her something fun like a 250 or supermoto, something nice and light.

 

[awyala]

I am also looking into ABS systems from Continental, which apparently offer anti-rear-wheel-lift. So not only does the ABS prevent lock up, but it prevents stoppies. However there is no word on whether this can be retro fitted and it appears to be highly involved with added firm / software upgrades to the ECU.

But the ideal solution would be an aftermarket, anti rear lift ABS system and a mapped restrictor.....if it is even possible! + an on / off switch!

 

[awyala]

K seriously. The plugs was a joke dude, dont run a 4 cylinder on 2 plugs.

keep the 10, by her something fun like a 250 or supermoto, something nice and light.

Yes I gathered running 2 plugs is not a serious solution. I just didn't want to assume you were joking or serious. I know from experience even 3 cylinders running out of 4 is not practical and is a choppy serious strain on the engine.

 

[Baggsy]

Is this the way it went down?

You went out and bought the bike you wanted with a loan, rather than the bike you needed without.

Now you want her to inherit your mistake, so you can run out or have already run out and get a new bike that you think you want?

Why should she have to put up with that?

Buy her the proper bike for her and stay on yours until you pay it off.

Then sit down and work out what you do and don't do on a bike. Take the emotion right out of the equation and purchase the bike that is best suited to that purpose, within your economic means.

 

[awyala]

Is this the way it went down?

You went out and bought the bike you wanted with a loan, rather than the bike you needed without.

Now you want her to inherit your mistake, so you can run out or have already run out and get a new bike that you think you want?

Why should she have to put up with that?

Buy her the proper bike for her and stay on yours until you pay it off.

Then sit down and work out what you do and don't do on a bike. Take the emotion right out of the equation and purchase the bike that is best suited to that purpose, within your economic means.

No it didn't go down like that at all, but thanks for the patronizing tone.

I take it you buy all your vehicles and property cash?

Secondly none of us NEED bikes, so get off your high seat with that attitude buddy. Go buy yourself a used 20 year old car with 100k on the clock before you judge on such matters.

I have known people who have quite easily started on 600R's or on Vtwin 1098 Ducatis. I am not hear to judge, some people do fine, while others don't. I personally advocate graduated learning and I am wondering if it is possible to graduate the power of a bike I already have in my stable...there is nothing selfish about that.

I could argue that all you ****** commentators are selfish for putting your lives at risk and not being there for your family after you die on the road next year and I read about you in the papers and all that crap. Seriously guys get off it, you sound like the peanut gallery! I'm approaching this from a technical investigation and you guys just flame on like you invented the combustion engine or something, while offering next to no qualified advice. I'm actually shocked that this comes from dudes with such high post numbers. You just clocking up post counts or something?