hi, thinking about getting a vw tdi. never owned a diesel before so dont know what i'm getting myself into. i always hear tdi has really good fuel economy.
should i do it?
should i do it?
anyone switched from gas to diesel car and never looked back?
- Thread starter SkyRider
- Start date
I've driven VW TDI diesels for the last 14 years. Sold the first one at 462,000 km, the current one has 422,000 km on it.
They are good on fuel - normal consumption is around 5.5 L/100 km.
They are German. Accordingly, the cars and the maintenance schedule and the fluids used etc are designed to work together. If the book says that thou shalt use coolant that conforms to VW G12+, then thou shalt do that. If the book says that thou shalt change the fuel filter every 32,000 km, then thou shalt do that. These cars do NOT tolerate being maintained by the corner quickie lube shop. You can do the scheduled maintenance yourself ... changing that aforementioned fuel filter takes 5 minutes ... but thou shalt do it, or else!
The body shells and the engine technologies do not change at the same time. There are three basic TDI engine technologies ... external rotary distributor pump (2003 and before), "pump-duse" unit injector (2004 - 2006), and common-rail (2009 onward) - there were no TDI cars with 2007 and 2008 model years in North America. Each one has their own quirks. The rotary-pump engines use injection system technology that dated back to the 1970's - the main issue now is that the cars they were in, are getting old. The "pump-duse" engines require careful attention to the type of engine oil being used - put the wrong engine oil in it even ONCE, and bye-bye camshaft and lifters - but other than that, they are pretty solid (my current TDI is a "pump-duse" and still has the original cam and lifters in it). The common-rail models 2009 onward have an extremely complex emission control system with 4 catalytic converters and 2 EGR systems, and VW is having an issue with the Bosch CP4.1 high-pressure fuel pump (HPFP) that these cars use, and an issue with the intercooler freezing up in cold weather.
If you want to buy a new one, buy the Passat TDI - nothing else. Reason: They changed some things in the fuel delivery system that appear to have significantly improved the durability of the HPFP (very few failures have been reported), and it uses a liquid-cooled intercooler to eliminate the intercooler-freezing issue. You will have to use AdBlue (a.k.a. "diesel exhaust fluid") on this model - but that has allowed them to tune the engine for better fuel consumption. The Passat is better on fuel in the real world than the Jetta is.
The next Golf will use an updated engine design that includes these revisions and more, but we're not getting it until next year (the Golf 7 is already out in Europe).
They are good cars, and fun to drive.
I bought mine because i wanted to tow bikes to the track, and i commute about 100km (both ways) to work everyday.
It started to give me a bit of problems in the last few months (wheel bearings failing like dominos) electric steering rack, and driver axle.
I was going to sell it, but the fuel mileage really can't be beat, so might as well hold onto it for another 200,000km
From an empty tank, costs me about $65 to fill up, and with the a/c running, and me driving it a bit agressive i still manage to get 850km to a tank of fuel.
The best i have ever gotten was just over 1000km on the way to Montreal in September.
If you work on the car you self, you will find out that the Vdub does things very different than most auto manufactures. I still hate that they don't use wheel studs
I bought mine because i wanted to tow bikes to the track, and i commute about 100km (both ways) to work everyday.
It started to give me a bit of problems in the last few months (wheel bearings failing like dominos) electric steering rack, and driver axle.
I was going to sell it, but the fuel mileage really can't be beat, so might as well hold onto it for another 200,000km
From an empty tank, costs me about $65 to fill up, and with the a/c running, and me driving it a bit agressive i still manage to get 850km to a tank of fuel.
The best i have ever gotten was just over 1000km on the way to Montreal in September.
If you work on the car you self, you will find out that the Vdub does things very different than most auto manufactures. I still hate that they don't use wheel studs
Red_Liner740
Well-known member
Its just sad that the only diesel car available has the horrendous VW badge attached to it and all the BS that comes from that. Well, now we have the Cruze diesel, we'll see how that goes seeing as how they priced it right around the same price as a Jetta TDI, and for some awful reason North America sees the Jetta and VW and as a more "prestigious" brand.
great info. thnx. which year passat tdi has this improved hpfp?
slowbird
Well-known member
I wanted a Diesel but I am not gonna get a VW until they get the Fuel Pump and Intercooler problem completely solved on all models.
Not to mention that the VW dealers immediatley blame the owners of the cars when the Fuel Pump goes, saying they must have filled up with non diesel fuel and will try and get the warranty voided.
I have read alot about it on VW owner forums. For such an expensive car they shouldn't have these problems.
i guess no car is perfect. but do the pros outweight the cons when choosing a vw diesel? that's the question lol
slowbird
Well-known member
The pro's are:
Good fuel economy.
The Cons are:
Expensive vehicle.
A fuel pump that may stop working and the engine will suddently sputter and die. (and if the dealer doesn't want to warranty it, you're looking at several thousand dollars to repair)
An Intercooler that collects ice and then melts and can hydro lock the engine.
**If it was just an Expensive vehicle that got good fuel economy then the Pros would outweight the Cons....but they suffer from reliability issues.**
Those are Just VW's with an Audi badge and a higher price tag.
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holy crap a fuel pump fail can cause such expensive repairs? man whoever designed it this way must be fired asap and never work in the auto industry again lol
http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...arison-test-hybrid-vs-tdi-vs-gli-vs-25-review
The Hybrid blows the TDI out of the water when it comes to city fuel economy.
The Hybrid blows the TDI out of the water when it comes to city fuel economy.
If all you're after is fuel economy, and that seems to be the only criteria in the original post, then go for it.
I'd love the fuel economy and handling, but hear too many love/hate horror stories and hit/miss reliability issues, mostly electrical. Not willing to pay a premium for a vehicle with a price tag that it carries when I need to be an engineer to fix it. My Fords and Hondas were always easy. My buddy told me one day he had to pay $1500 to replace his clutch and related components in his old Passat. I still shake my head to this day.
I'd love the fuel economy and handling, but hear too many love/hate horror stories and hit/miss reliability issues, mostly electrical. Not willing to pay a premium for a vehicle with a price tag that it carries when I need to be an engineer to fix it. My Fords and Hondas were always easy. My buddy told me one day he had to pay $1500 to replace his clutch and related components in his old Passat. I still shake my head to this day.
VW has had this market niche to themselves, but hang in there another few months if you want a diesel without the VW badge (and baggage). The aforementioned Chevy Cruze diesel, and the Mazda 6 diesel, and the BMW 4-cylinder diesel (in several body styles), will all be out in the next few months. Add to that the Ram 1500 pickup truck with their V6 diesel (not the Cummins and not the heavy-duty truck), and there is an outside possibility that the same V6 diesel will show up in the Chrysler 300.
The one somewhat sucky thing is that it appears that all except the VW will be automatic transmission only. But on the other hand ... several of these are going to be attached to some version of the ZF 8-speed automatic, which seems to be pretty good.
All of the current-body-style models (2012 onward). This vehicle's start-of-production date was late enough so that there were a couple of years of actual field experience with the Jetta common-rail engine to reveal the issues. It blows my mind that the improvements made to the Passat's intake and fuel systems were not retrofitted to Golf and Jetta. There is a service bulletin for dealers to replace the intercooler under warranty on Golf/Jetta with a new design that is less susceptible to freezing (and it happened to my dad - he has a 2011 Golf TDI). Buy a new Golf TDI today ... and it still has the old (freeze-up-susceptible) intercooler from the production line, not the new "improved" version!
VW seems to have gotten mostly past the blame-the-customer phase for both the intercooler freezing and HPFP issues. They have been replacing HPFP's under goodwill warranty long past the official warranty period.
I hear you on the attitude of VW, though. I don't want to deal with intercooler-freezing or HPFP, either. I don't particularly like the current Passat TDI, but mostly because the car looks like a Chevy Impala. Good car, but it's too cookie-cutter run-of-the-mill for me.
Same thing as a Golf, just more goodies and a higher price tag. It is mechanically identical - complete with HPFP and intercooler-freezing issues.
Maybe under specific circumstances, but real-world overall-average fuel consumption is very close between the TDI and the hybrid, with the slight edge towards the TDI, if anything. In the USA, where diesel fuel is often more expensive than gasoline, the hybrid has the fuel-cost advantage, but it's only slight. The Jetta hybrid is interesting, and if pushed towards buying a hybrid, that's the one I'd get. (I haven't driven a Toyota in recent memory that I haven't despised because of the absurdly over-assisted power steering, and that includes a Prius.)
slowbird
Well-known member
The Fuel Pump is attached to the motor and is labor intensive to get to. Also, once the fuel system has been contaminated it is not an easy job to get it going again. If you run out of gas in one of these TDI's, you can't just get a Jerry-can and fill it up on the side of the road and drive off. The system needs to be bled as Air can damage the sensitive Fuel Pump on common rail vehicles.
Back to the Fuel pump failure.....it apparently fills the system with air and debris and the entire Fuel system needs to be replaced.
I agree. I do not like the look of the Passat at all.
Mazda US has confirmed that their diesels will come with a stick option.
A fuel pump on a diesel is a very different animal then a fuel pump on a gas motor. On older diesel systems the fuel pump would draw fuel from the tank, pressurize it, meter it and then also control the injection timing. More or less the mechanical brains of the engine. Now with common rail diesels, the high pressure fuel pump only pressurizes the fuel (May draw as well but most systems I've delt with have a electrical lift pump for that purpose). Unlike the pump of a gas engine putting out 65-80psi the common rail high pressure pump with put out 15-20k psi +.
And when they grenade they spew shrapnel all through the system.
Owning several German diesels, I whole hearted agree with Brian P. Follow the service intervals and fluid specs to the letter and you will be good to go.
I really enjoyed my trouble free yrs with VW deisel. The never ending emissions lights ended the love affair. Mazda 6 is looking very promising, the new Ram V6 will be a winner, but next year. Like the new 8sp automatic in the Ram, do not be an early adopter.
