Woman killed by Wheel

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OpenGambit said:
its not about what "you" would do, this is about the duties the law places on employees vs owners and personal vs business activities.

what makes you think he would be responsible for anything other than a claim on his insurance?
If a wheel fell of my car and hit something it would be my insurance. You are looking for injustice where there isn't any.
Do you expect anyone to shed tears for the insurance company? whose business is the management of risk?
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I respectfully disagree. You seem to have a socialist agenda here. The driver may not own the truck or the trailer. He could be an employee. He would still be fined. Do you think you should be fined $50,000k if the wheel falls off your car while you're contracting to deliver pizzas for Mama's? Or would you prefer that liability be aimed at the person who built, serviced or safetied your vehicle? Remember, absolute liability..the only way to escape being found guilty and fined is to prove the wheel didn't leave the car..
 
There is a picture of the wheel, the rim is intact looks like it could have been an internal problem. (Can't tell without the trailer). A normal pre-trip would not have found an internal problem. But its to early to tell. I am sure they have the unit now and are checking it out. They have the trucking company's name already.

But its all speculation when all you have to go on is a small picture. It might not be the drivers error.
 
invictus43 said:
I respectfully disagree. You seem to have a socialist agenda here. The driver may not own the truck or the trailer. He could be an employee. He would still be fined. Do you think you should be fined $50,000k if the wheel falls off your car while you're contracting to deliver pizzas for Mama's? Or would you prefer that liability be aimed at the person who built, serviced or safetied your vehicle? Remember, absolute liability..the only way to escape being found guilty and fined is to prove the wheel didn't leave the car..
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Maybe you should look up socialist in the dictionary.

You are still making up a myth of some guy who is a saint getting fined 50,000. I haven't seen it. ppl get 0 years in prison for manslaugter... There is nothing to suggest that they would apply the harshest penalty on the most undeserving. Absolutely nothing.

But its easy to make a point when you get to just make up the facts.

And no. I have NO problem with expecting the guy who delivers pizza to be responsible for a wheel falling off his car. OMG SOCIALIST.
 
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OpenGambit said:
Maybe you should look up socialist in the dictionary.

You are still making up a myth of some guy who is a saint getting fined 50,000. I haven't seen it. ppl get 0 years in prison for manslaugter... There is nothing to suggest that they would apply the harshest penalty on the most undeserving. Absolutely nothing.

But its easy to make a point when you get to just make up the facts.
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I have no idea what you're talking about. You keep bringing up saint-hood. You make no sense. We apparently shall continue to disagree.
 
invictus43 said:
I have no idea what you're talking about. You keep bringing up saint-hood. You make no sense. We apparently shall continue to disagree.
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The one making no sense is the person crying "poor trucker" when he just killed someone's parent.
 
OpenGambit said:
The one making no sense is the person crying "poor trucker" when he just killed someone's parent.
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And what if it was not his fault, having people calling him or her a killer is not right. That will be with them for the rest of their life, as well as the family that lost someone.
 
RoadHogg said:
And what if it was not his fault, having people calling him or her a killer is not right. That will be with them for the rest of their life, as well as the family that lost someone.
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I didn't say he was a murderer, but he killed someone, thats just a fact. Whether its his fault or not I don't know.
 
OpenGambit said:
I didn't say he was a murderer, but he killed someone, thats just a fact. Whether its his fault or not I don't know.
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The wheel killed someone. Perhaps a mechanic screwed up on its last service?
 
RoadHogg said:
The wheel killed someone. Perhaps a mechanic screwed up on its last service?
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Another guy making up the "its not his fault" facts.
Sure. play with it all you want. But the only blameless person here is the victim.
The fact that there is even an arguement is asinine because all you are really defending is his insurance company.
if he was really diligent he just isn't going to get a big fine.

So yeah. i expect his insurance company to pay it out.. how very socialist of me.
 
OpenGambit said:
Another guy making up the "its not his fault" facts.
Sure. play with it all you want. But the only blameless person here is the victim.
The fact that there is even an arguement is asinine because all you are really defending is his insurance company.
if he was really diligent he just isn't going to get a big fine.

So yeah. i expect his insurance company to pay it out.. how very socialist of me.
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I don't recall saying any of that, but if that is what you comprehended from what I said then ok. You must have all the answers on this one then I am so sorry, yep and when a plane crashes it all the pilots fault regardless of what happens.
I never said it wasn't his or her fault but it might not be. It is someones tho. oh sorry I forgot you solved the case already and it is the drivers fault. My bad.
 
I don't give a **** if it is his fault, he is still responsible.

Our entire car insurance system doesn't require proof of neligence for compensation.
and you two come here and act like its some kinda of great injustice.

its laughable.
 
OpenGambit said:
I don't give a **** if it is his fault, he is still responsible.

Our entire car insurance system doesn't require proof of neligence for compensation.
and you two come here and act like its some kinda of great injustice.

its laughable.
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Your right there is something laughable here.. You better put on your tinfoil hat. Someone is at fault yes, ah forget it go scream at your computer about the evils of everyone.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how some threads on GTAM can go ballistic in only a few posts.

I am a truck driver. If I do a proper, recorded pre-trip inspection on my truck and trailer - regardless of whether it's my own company's trailer or from another company - and a wheel assembly later comes off while driving, I am immediately held responsible because I am the driver of the vehicle. The subsequent investigation, and there will be one, may exonerate me and shift the blame onto the last mechanic who serviced the trailer, but the "operating an unsafe vehicle" charge will remain on my commercial driver's licence and my company's safety record. The court battle, and there will be one, will be handled by the insurance companies and, regardless of the outcome, the "operarting an unsafe vehicle" charge will still remain on my commercial driver's licence and my company's safety record. For me to be charged with murder, it would have to be proven that I willingly and knowingly drove a vehicle with a wheel assembly that was not safely secured. In the meantime, the people who were injured/killed as a result of the wheel assembly hitting their vehicle... remain dead.

I can't speak for the rest of commercial licensed drivers in Canada, but I can speak for myself - because I know what the penalties are and have a functioning conscience and strong morals, I do not and will not ever knowingly operate a vehicle if it fails a pre-trip inspection. The potential for a catastrophic outcome far outweighs the dismal compensation I get paid for completing the trip and delivering the load. In other words, the risk is not worth the reward. But if something happens to the vehicle as a result of something that was beyond my control (and a good example is given in another post here about a fractured steering arm), I still end up getting charged for it - that's part and parcel of being a trucker. And that most certainly does not make me a "murderer".
 
invictus43 said:
I'm not a trucker, don't know much about the business, but it seems a little unfair that the driver is responsible for the trailer condition. Don't they just pick up trailers from various people? How are they supposed to know if the truck is safe? Terrible tragedy though..scary stuff.
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You pick up your buddies car and it has a blown breaklight.... you are still responsible. When you take control of a vehilce you are responsible to be sure it is safe for the road. Agreed some **** is not regular checking crap and the owner should have been on top of it but something like a wheel.... I feel sorry for the guy but he should have checked it. Thats his job...
 
Cat13 said:
I feel sorry for the guy but he should have checked it. Thats his job...
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A wheel coming off does not necessarily mean a lack of proper pre-trip inspection by the driver. Maybe the driver did do all the necessary checks. Metal parts do break as a result of internal cracks that cannot be seen by the naked eye, and sometimes catastrophically without warning.
 
Very sad to see something like this happen. I feel a preventable death, but can't be sure until there is more info to be had.

If they ever find the truck or trailer that the wheel came from there's going to be some large trouble, and everyone involved is going to get a 50k fine. The owner, the driver and the mechanic. It will be then up to them to prove why they should not be held liable. Been there, done that.

The driver will definately be held liable and the owner as well. The mechanic has a chance so long as their records are up to date, and they havent serviced the truck lately.

It is part of the drivers daily duties to perform a "daily truck inspection" and keep a copy of it in the truck at all times. The carrier is required to keep a copy of the inspection for 3-5 years after. The inspection must follow a minimum standard and the minimum is a document called "Schedule 1" inspection (link on bottom of page). A section of this inspection includes wheel fasteners, rim conditions and hub oil level check. A large part of getting your A or D license is spent of pre trip inspections and how to do them. You are also tested when getting your license on your pre trip. The schedule 1 inspection is a CVSA (Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance) standard inspection and is the same North America wide. Meaning, you get stopped on the 400 nb scale by King road and asked to go through your pretrip will be the same as if you were in California.

The driver is responsible for this inspection. It must be performed every 24 hours on each unit truck and trailer. If you start the day with 1 truck and trailer, switch trailers it's up to the driver to inspect the new trailer and do the paperwork as required. To do the inspection by the book for a regular dry van trailer should take about 30 mins. Truck and trailer about an hour maybe longer depending on the equipment. That's by the book. Most drivers take about 15-30 mins total. If you always drive the same equipment it might get faster because your familiar. Drivers are also susposed to recheck wheels after driver (i don't remember the the distance ~250kms) and note it in their log book.

The owner will get nailed because it's up to him to hire drivers able to do the inspection, and it's up to him to make sure that they indeed do the inspection as required. As well as the over all condition of his equipment.

The mechanic better hope that the trucks not been in for service in recent history. If it was and the wheel end in question was serviced they better hope the mechanic was licensed and used a torque wrench with a valid calibration to tighten the lugs and affixed a retorque reminder to the w/o.

In my opinion based on the picture of the wheel and my professional experience I would say nuts were loose. You can see the way the holes on the rims are wallowed out from being loose. The bolt in the 1 o'clock position looks like it snapped clean off. It does not appear to be a bearing failure as the hub is not on the wheel, and tends to break out the centre of the rim if it comes off on the highway and goes end over end.

It is very unlikely that a wheel could come off a tractor trailer and not have given signs of impending failure that the driver should have picked up in his daily inspection or roadside wheel checks. In the article you can only see the inside of the wheel, flip it around and i'll bet a case of beer that there's dirt streaks coming from the lug holes running down..
 
Gummiente said:
It never ceases to amaze me how some threads on GTAM can go ballistic in only a few posts.
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Exactly what I was thinking while glazing over all that crap.

Very sad for the family.
 
From the picture of that wheel, Id put money on it being loose wheel nuts, which would mean all the blame will fall on the driver.

Tragic way for the victims family to start their Christmas holidays :(
 
OpenGambit said:
Its not unfair at all to expect that people make sure that whatever they are driving on the road is safe.
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This might even fall above and beyond the regular safety check as I really don't see how you could check this without a jumbo torque wrench.

In any case, it's a sad incident. May she RIP.
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