winning is bad

They totally misinterpreted the league. Nowhere in the article does the league say that winning is bad. Those are words inserted by the author. The league just says that their focus is development, and that by not giving out useless medals, they have reduced cost. Remember, we're not talking about top-tier awards. Anyways, if you're giving out awards, you imply that there's no need for them to improve.

There's plenty of debates about how the AAU circuit and NCAA coaches overemphasize winning. What happens is that kids who are athletically gifted end up relying on their athleticism rather than becoming better basketball players, and you end up with a bunch of incomplete players who end up failing when they get to the NBA. Take Joey Graham as an example.

Winning is fine. Just don't expect to pop the bubbly for winning a simple intramural league.
 
jc100 said:
Or maybe some people work hard and see nothing except others who get the breaks through accident of birth etc? There's a bit of a mix of the two in my mind.
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The fact that life isnt fair is an important lesson as well. Where would people like Spudd Webb be if he said to himself,"why bother working hard? Im too short to play in the nba." He probably had to work twice as hard as some of his peers. Winners will grit their teeth in the face of obstacles and work harder instead of sit around and lament their life situation.
 
So all you people who thnk we shouldn't keep score are ok to cut your salary, benefits and vacation time so the people below you or with less experience than you can feel like they aren't losing? You wonder why these days no one wants to be entry level or a blue collar worker? Cause they think they deserve better.the world needs regulare people too, everyone can't be a winner.
 
RockerGuy said:
Personal satisfaction is great. Nothing gives me personal satisfaction than competition. I'll give u a personal experience. When I was younger and use to troll the courts for a game of basketball, we use to play pick-up. Where nobody is counting score, the game is pretty "slow/dead". The minute we all decide to count scores, the game immediately picks up. Individuals start pushing themselves to get that basket. It makes a better game and it cultivates skill. Overall its more fun.

Where this is no scoring, ppl are less interested in improving and skills remain stagnant
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I agree. If you are the kind of kid that can accept competition and not have it affect you in a negative way, then great. Unfortunately, some parents won't allow their kids to be "losers" and push them too hard. Or they stack teams to guarantee they always win. Remember, these are kids..these are teenagers.. Hockey enrollment in this country has been declining for a while..and a lot of that has to do with the attitude of parents. I really don't see the story being directed at the kids..I'm sure there's more to it and it probably relates to the parents in some way.
 
sonnythebull said:
So all you people who thnk we shouldn't keep score are ok to cut your salary, benefits and vacation time so the people below you or with less experience than you can feel like they aren't losing? You wonder why these days no one wants to be entry level or a blue collar worker? Cause they think they deserve better.the world needs regulare people too, everyone can't be a winner.
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As my father said..the world needs ditch diggers.. :-)
 
caboose483 said:
I'm not exactly sure what your message is. You might not win so don't bother trying?

My issue with this "there are no winners or losers" crap is that it teaches kids that hard work isn't worth it. The kid that eats, sleeps and breathes soccer gets the same recognition as the kid that is sitting down in the grass picking his nose all day.
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My point is, it's dangerous to teach kids that if you don't win, you're a loser. Some kids can't deal with that. I know there are people who say that makes kids pussies, and that mentality ranks right up there with "I'll beat the gay right out of you..". Winning can mean simply working hard. You don't have to finish first. It's also dangerous when parents interfere with their kids and try to do "what's best for them". That may not be what's best for them!! :-)
 
FullMotoJacket said:
<cough, cough> Tony Alessi <cough>
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I was thinking of Jennifer Cappriati, or Tiger Woods, or the Williams sisters, or any NCAA athlete who quit school after first year to play in pro sports. There's nothing wrong with winning, but you have to keep a balanced perspective.
 
invictus43 said:
My point is, it's dangerous to teach kids that if you don't win, you're a loser. Some kids can't deal with that. I know there are people who say that makes kids pussies, and that mentality ranks right up there with "I'll beat the gay right out of you..". Winning can mean simply working hard. You don't have to finish first. It's also dangerous when parents interfere with their kids and try to do "what's best for them". That may not be what's best for them!! :-)
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So what Is the opposite of winning then? Participating? Beating the gay out of someone isn't possible as you are born gay. Are you saying you are born a wimp and quitter too? If that's the case then no amount of winning or losing will change your attitude.
 
invictus43 said:
My point is, it's dangerous to teach kids that if you don't win, you're a loser. Some kids can't deal with that. I know there are people who say that makes kids pussies, and that mentality ranks right up there with "I'll beat the gay right out of you..". Winning can mean simply working hard. You don't have to finish first. It's also dangerous when parents interfere with their kids and try to do "what's best for them". That may not be what's best for them!! :-)
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You're talking about the opposite extreme that I am. It's the middle ground that is ideal.
 
I heard a story on The Fan tonight. They were talking about a swim coach who has a lifetime sanction for drug/steroid infractions including distribution as well as being involved in disposing of a body on his farm. The body was someone who was on the wrong side of the drug group this coach was associated with. The sanctioning body did all they could to punish the Oakville club he's associated with by giving them crappy pool times for practice. The parents are unhappy with this. They are fully aware of the coach's past but he presumably has some success as a coach. So tell me, is winning worth that?? This is the type of behaviour that I bet the story in Ottawa was about. I would hope that most parents would look to a different role model.
 
caboose483 said:
You're talking about the opposite extreme that I am. It's the middle ground that is ideal.
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Exactly. I said previously I think not keeping score is kinda silly. But I only hope that the parents keep some perspective. And I suspect it's something about the parents that's the problem in that story.
 
sonnythebull said:
So what Is the opposite of winning then? Participating? Beating the gay out of someone isn't possible as you are born gay. Are you saying you are born a wimp and quitter too? If that's the case then no amount of winning or losing will change your attitude.
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I'm saying not all kids can compete at the level their parents want, no matter how hard you push them.
 
Roasted said:
But honestly, I don't completely dissagree with this....I mean come on....9-10 year old kids. Should be about fun at that age.
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Sure, but winning is a hell of a lot more fun than not winning.
 
This is new this year to soccer in Ontario.

The thought behind it is that when you focus on a team winning, you may not bring out the best in an individual player. For instance, the house league mentality is "pass the ball to the good player so they can score". This does nothing to improve the skill level of the lesser players, and can happen in competitive games when a coach is focused only on winning.

By concentrating on skills development in the early years, when there are no real pinnacles of competition to win, the hope is that Canadian soccer will have a chance to develop many skillful players.

This is the thought behind the changes, and Canada is not the first country to do this. Stay tuned to see if it works here.

http://www.ontariosoccer.net/Home.aspx

For more information, go to the above link, click coach, Long-Term Player Development.
 
Hockey has often been criticized because coaches for a long time double-shifted players to win games at the expense of developing ALL the players. I don't really have a problem with it at the AAA level, but below that we should be developing kids, especially in house league. Imagine paying $7k for your kid to be in AA and then he gets 7mins of ice time in games. Like, seriously?
 
How are kids supposed to grow up right when the adults teaching them are idiots?

How about teaching kids a game is just a game? More importantly, losing isn't the end of the world.

I found that growing up I wasn't encouraged enough. I was almost an adult before I realized what I was actually capable of.

I never had an issue losing a hockey game. I never cried when we lost the house league championship. Some kids did, some great fathers they must have had.
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