winning is bad

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RockerGuy said:
Everything has to be done in moderation. But outright disregarding hard work?? Thats a whole different story
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Totally agree..but hard work doesn't always mean you win. And you have to make sure kids understand that too. I guarantee there's more to that story than is printed, probably involving parents who are just a little extreme with their kids.
 
invictus43 said:
Totally agree..but hard work doesn't always mean you win. And you have to make sure kids understand that too. I guarantee there's more to that story than is printed, probably involving parents who are just a little extreme with their kids.
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So any ideas how you would award kids who put in the extra effort to train?
 
invictus43 said:
I'm not sure you can equate winning with work ethic.
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Why not?

There's more to it than just "winning". If I only judged my racing success by how many races i've won i'd be pretty disappointed (with only one win).

Hard work should be rewarded.
 
SkyRider said:
how do
we define "hard work"? robbing a bank is hard work too! lol
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Robbing a bank is the easy way out. Getting thousands in a short space of time. If it were that hard, u think alot ppl would be motivated to do it?
 
If you don't keep score in life how do you improve? You don't. A world of losers has been bred the last 20 years and it gets worse as we go on. This might be the reason for the income gap and what the OWS crowd are going on about. If we expect to be rewarded or not pushed just because we bother to show up then someone somewhere is going to literally eat our lunch. The pussification of the world continues.
 
sonnythebull said:
If you don't keep score in life how do you improve? You don't. A world of losers has been bred the last 20 years and it gets worse as we go on. This might be the reason for the income gap and what the OWS crowd are going on about. If we expect to be rewarded or not pushed just because we bother to show up then someone somewhere is going to literally eat our lunch. The pussification of the world continues.
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Me thinks there are some connections between this thread and the Occupy Bay St thread.

I want something but I don't want to work for it.
 
SkyRider said:
its already happening lol
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+1...I notice a lot of people in the work force around my age are worthless idiots with entitlement issues. The future is gonna be awesome!
 
caboose483 said:
Why not?

There's more to it than just "winning". If I only judged my racing success by how many races i've won i'd be pretty disappointed (with only one win).

Hard work should be rewarded.
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My point exactly. You can work hard and not win.
 
RockerGuy said:
So any ideas how you would award kids who put in the extra effort to train?
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Personal satisfaction?? Like you said, moderation. I don't agree with the whole "don't keep score" thing. But I guarantee there's more to that story and I bet it's something to do with adults manipulating teams and players to ensure a winning team.
 
caboose483 said:
Me thinks there are some connections between this thread and the Occupy Bay St thread.

I want something but I don't want to work for it.
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Or maybe some people work hard and see nothing except others who get the breaks through accident of birth etc? There's a bit of a mix of the two in my mind.
 
invictus43 said:
My point exactly. You can work hard and not win.
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I'm not exactly sure what your message is. You might not win so don't bother trying?

No matter how good you are there is always going to be someone better. There is no shame in being beaten by the best. By no means does hard work guarantee victory but there are certainly other accomplishments that, while they fall short of winning, are worth trying for in themselves. If your mentality is that nothing short of 1st place is acceptable then you're setting yourself up for failure.

My issue with this "there are no winners or losers" crap is that it teaches kids that hard work isn't worth it. The kid that eats, sleeps and breathes soccer gets the same recognition as the kid that is sitting down in the grass picking his nose all day.

In sports: hard work = better finishes, more wins, personal bests, umbrella girls.
In real life: hard work = better pay, promotions, prosperity

Teaching kids that all they have to do is show up........ is bad news.
 
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caboose483 said:
I'm not exactly sure what your message is. You might not win so don't bother trying?

No matter how good you are there is always going to be someone better. There is no shame in being beaten by the best. By no means does hard work guarantee victory but there are certainly other accomplishments that, while they fall short of winning, are worth trying for in themselves. If your mentality is that nothing short of 1st place is acceptable then you're setting yourself up for failure.

My issue with this "there are no winners or losers" crap is that it teaches kids that hard work isn't worth it. The kid that eats, sleeps and breathes soccer gets the same recognition as the kid that sitting down in the grass picking his nose all day.

In sports: hard work = better finishes, more wins, personal bests, umbrella girls.
In real life: hard work = better pay, promotions, prosperity

Teaching kids that all they have to do is show up........ is bad news.
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I think he was agreeing with you.

These kinds of programs often fall short of the true goal. They sometimes (very limited) have the right idea to teach kids about more than winning (not excluding it, just that it's not the only thing), but they fall short on delivery.

Hard work doesn't always equal winning though. Just as winning doesn't always equal hard work.

I'd be more inclined to believe that this association is fed up with the parents.
 
jc100 said:
Or maybe some people work hard and see nothing except others who get the breaks through accident of birth etc? There's a bit of a mix of the two in my mind.
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Life isn't fair. Another valuable lesson we're forgetting to teach our kids.
 
invictus43 said:
Personal satisfaction?? Like you said, moderation. I don't agree with the whole "don't keep score" thing. But I guarantee there's more to that story and I bet it's something to do with adults manipulating teams and players to ensure a winning team.
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Personal satisfaction is great. Nothing gives me personal satisfaction than competition. I'll give u a personal experience. When I was younger and use to troll the courts for a game of basketball, we use to play pick-up. Where nobody is counting score, the game is pretty "slow/dead". The minute we all decide to count scores, the game immediately picks up. Individuals start pushing themselves to get that basket. It makes a better game and it cultivates skill. Overall its more fun.

Where this is no scoring, ppl are less interested in improving and skills remain stagnant
 
caboose483 said:
Life isn't fair. Another valuable lesson we're forgetting to teach our kids.
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True too...but then there's people trying hard to equalise things a bit.

I think the basic thing here is to get the right message across to kids. Trying is a good thing (better than not trying)...winning is a great thing to be rewarded....you don't always win....there's things you can do to make the not-winning a little less frequent.
 
jc100 said:
True too...but then there's people trying hard to equalise things a bit.

I think the basic thing here is to get the right message across to kids. Trying is a good thing (better than not trying)...winning is a great thing to be rewarded....you don't always win....there's things you can do to make the not-winning a little less frequent.
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I think situations like this stem from the fact that some parents take competitive sports waaaay too far. There's excessive and abusive pressure on the kid to perform and to win and etc....unfortunately, it seems like we're over-reacting a bit and forcing the pendulum to swing too far over to the other side.

Winning and losing are a part of life, and unfair as it is, kids need to learn how to lose. If anything losing has a lot more to teach kids than winning.
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