Salos Dafee
Well-known member
I think those subjects are covered in the forum for Harley Davidson riders. "Davidson" is the only 3-syllable word permitted, and the spell-checker runs red hot!
+ Why we crash +
- Thread starter rizvi
- Start date
I think those subjects are covered in the forum for Harley Davidson riders. "Davidson" is the only 3-syllable word permitted, and the spell-checker runs red hot!
darryle
Well-known member
"We crash trying to keep up. Ultimate speed on a back road has little to do with the bike and everything to do with the rider. Once you realize this, twisting the throttle WFO to keep your friends in sight on the straights while losing them in the corners becomes a non-option. Ride your own pace."
If the people your riding with are really your friends,they will ride their pace but always wait up for you before they get to far ahead
If the people your riding with are really your friends,they will ride their pace but always wait up for you before they get to far ahead
N
noobinacan
Guest
nice writeup.
Also, people think just because they are in racing leathers or geared up, they can do whatever they want on the bike and the gear will save them. The truth is it won't. Your gear is your plan B. Your plan A is to ride within your limits. If you don't know how to pop wheelies or do stoppies or burn outs...then DON'T.
I like to look at it this way...
Your gear will only save your skin. Not your bones.
Impact is what kills and a piece of leather or even a CE pad won't help you.
so I gear up...but ride as If I am riding in shorts and a shirt without a helmet.
my 2 cents.
Also, I think the more we talk about safety, the more we will remember about it when we are on two wheels...vs sitting in our living rooms/porch drinking a cup of tea
+1
I use to ride with some folks..who would pop wheelies all the time...and do 135 + mph on freeway...
One day, I was trying to catch up with them and entered a ramp doing 65mph...sure I could have taken that curve on a scrubbed / nicely paved race track.
but this ramp had gravel on the edges - then a curb- then a guard rail and a drop off to another freeway under us.
If I would have tried to knee down...I would have lost traction due to the debris closer to the curb.
If I would get straight, I would run out of road.
I don't know how I got through it...but I learned something.
"RIDE with people who are cool, laid back...and ride to have fun and not go fast all the time"
Adding someone on a cruiser to the group will add the "laid-back" factor.
Also, people think just because they are in racing leathers or geared up, they can do whatever they want on the bike and the gear will save them. The truth is it won't. Your gear is your plan B. Your plan A is to ride within your limits. If you don't know how to pop wheelies or do stoppies or burn outs...then DON'T.
I like to look at it this way...
Your gear will only save your skin. Not your bones.
Impact is what kills and a piece of leather or even a CE pad won't help you.
so I gear up...but ride as If I am riding in shorts and a shirt without a helmet.
my 2 cents.
Also, I think the more we talk about safety, the more we will remember about it when we are on two wheels...vs sitting in our living rooms/porch drinking a cup of tea
+1
I use to ride with some folks..who would pop wheelies all the time...and do 135 + mph on freeway...
One day, I was trying to catch up with them and entered a ramp doing 65mph...sure I could have taken that curve on a scrubbed / nicely paved race track.
but this ramp had gravel on the edges - then a curb- then a guard rail and a drop off to another freeway under us.
If I would have tried to knee down...I would have lost traction due to the debris closer to the curb.
If I would get straight, I would run out of road.
I don't know how I got through it...but I learned something.
"RIDE with people who are cool, laid back...and ride to have fun and not go fast all the time"
Adding someone on a cruiser to the group will add the "laid-back" factor.
Last edited:
Contributing Factors by the Motorcyclist
* Unsafe speed 21%
* Driving without due care 17%
* Rider inexperience 17%
* Impaired rider 6%
The only reason I post this is, don't be in one of the above percentages!
Watch out, don't ride beyond your experience, and for your sake, don't drink!
* Unsafe speed 21%
* Driving without due care 17%
* Rider inexperience 17%
* Impaired rider 6%
The only reason I post this is, don't be in one of the above percentages!
Watch out, don't ride beyond your experience, and for your sake, don't drink!
T
tmcconne
Guest
I did a rider training course about 10 years ago in Australia, Wayne Gardiner (World Champion - 80's sometime) was a guest instructor and he made the point that "you go where you look" which I have found to be so true over the years, on a few times I have found myself into a corner too fast and the old fight or flight nuerons start flooding the brain - I have found that the 'fight' opion is better, go hard for where you want to go, and as another poster said, let the technology work for you, and if that doesn't work, be prepared by wearing high quality protective gear.
D
Dirtybill
Guest
I crash because I'm on dirt
:happy3::snorting:
:happy3::snorting:
S
saeed883
Guest
good post
F
Fubuki
Guest
Unless you're Chuck Norris...
Chuck Norris once dumped his motorcycle but, he didn't get hurt. The ground moved out of the way...
Chuck Norris once dumped his motorcycle but, he didn't get hurt. The ground moved out of the way...
johnp
Well-known member
From today's Globe & Mail. It's about cars but some of it would apply to us too:
Worry and live
Reviewing Tom Vanderbilt's Traffic: Why We Drive the Way We Do, Mary Roach writes:
"Vanderbilt cites a statistic that nearly 80 per cent of crashes involve drivers not paying attention for up to three seconds. Thus the places that seem the most dangerous - narrow roads, hairpin turns - are rarely where people mess up. 'Most crashes,' Vanderbilt writes, 'happen on dry roads, on clear, sunny days, to sober drivers.' For this reason, roads that could be straight are often constructed with curves - simply to keep drivers on the ball."
Source: The New York Times Book Review
Worry and live
Reviewing Tom Vanderbilt's Traffic: Why We Drive the Way We Do, Mary Roach writes:
"Vanderbilt cites a statistic that nearly 80 per cent of crashes involve drivers not paying attention for up to three seconds. Thus the places that seem the most dangerous - narrow roads, hairpin turns - are rarely where people mess up. 'Most crashes,' Vanderbilt writes, 'happen on dry roads, on clear, sunny days, to sober drivers.' For this reason, roads that could be straight are often constructed with curves - simply to keep drivers on the ball."
Source: The New York Times Book Review
F
fullforce
Guest
I crashed a thousand times on dirt , hoping to never drop on the road , we'll see!
johnp
Well-known member
From August 21st 2008 Globe & Mail
Riders, make it easy for motorist to see you
Article Comments TED LATURNUS
August 21, 2008
According to the service manager at my local dealership, this has been an unusually bad season for motorcycle accidents. He says his shop has "tons" of busted-up bikes in various stages of disrepair all over the place and he can't recall this many insurance claims coming through in the past.
Although much of the evidence is anecdotal, some statistics seem to back up his view. According to the U.S.-based Insurance Information Institute, motorcycle fatalities are at their highest level in more than 25 years, and have been rising steadily every year since 1996.
In part, this may be because there are more bikes - and large displacement ones at that - than ever on the road these days, but it's also because there are more cars than ever out there. Our highways and byways are crowded, and riding a motorcycle or scooter is considerably riskier than it used to be.
A driver recently plowed into a group of bikes on a highway in New Brunswick, badly injuring six of them, for example, while Andrea Pininfarina, boss of the legendary Italian automotive design firm, was killed riding his scooter near Turin. There have been a rash of accidents in my hometown, Vancouver, including one on one of the busiest streets in the city. An elderly motorist turned left in front of a rider, who lost control, mounted the curb and collided with a utility pole. He died.
The most common accident scenario is one in which the motorist says he or she isn't aware of the bike: "I just didn't see him" is the refrain frequently heard by police and paramedics at these accident scenes. If you have ridden for any length of time, chances are pretty good you've been cut off by an inattentive driver who "just didn't see you." I know I have, more times than I care to remember.
According to various studies in Europe and elsewhere, part of the problem is that because a bike is so much smaller than an automobile, motorists may have a built-in sense of "safety superiority" that leads to careless attitudes and sloppy driving behaviour.
Studies also suggest that because bikes are smaller, it is more difficult for some motorists to judge their speed; if the bike is proceeding in a straight line toward the oncoming driver, the motorist is sometimes fooled about the bike's location and speed. This seems to be especially true with inexperienced and/or elderly drivers.
Despite what many riders may think, a left-turner who fails to yield the right of way is not the most common accident involving motorcyclists. It's the fourth-most common, according to the U.S. Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, accounting for at least eight per cent of all motorcycle accidents. But it is the most common mishap involving another vehicle.
(The most common accidents for bikes are lone-vehicle mishaps: a rider who fails to negotiate a turn in the road, falls off the bike, collides with something, has too much to drink, or similar situations.)
In a study conducted by the U.S. Department of Transport, almost 70 per cent of all right-of-way violations between bikes and cars were caused by a motorist who failed to yield to an oncoming motorcycle. According to the widely read Hurt Report, conducted in the late 1970s by the University of Southern California and published in 1981, two-thirds of all motorcycles accidents result from a motorist "not seeing" the bike, with predictably horrific results. And they are horrific. Don't kid yourself; a motorcycle accident is a sickening thing to witness, or be involved in. I know - I've been there.
Even at comparatively slow speeds, a rider can suffer severe injury in an accident, and there's an 80-per-cent chance he or she will suffer an injury of some kind. No question that motorcycle accidents are life-changing events.
As a rider, you can take action to make yourself more visible:
A light-coloured helmet - especially white - has been shown to increase a rider's visibility by up to 25 per cent.
Fluorescent-coloured clothing will increase your visibility odds by up to 45 per cent.
Always have your headlight on, and if you have auxiliary lights, put them on too.
Remember: as far as most motorists are concerned, you are invisible. Ride accordingly and take nothing for granted.
I would also like to send a strong, loud message to motorists: A motorcyclist is not an image. That's a real person on that bike, with a real life, who is vulnerable to stupid moves by inattentive drivers. More importantly, that rider has as much right to be there as you do. How many more of us have to be struck down, lying on the street like road kill, before drivers smarten up? How many more motorcyclists have to die or suffer serious injury before people get the message?
globeauto@globeandmail.com
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/GAM.20080821.WHBIKES21/BNStory/specialGlobeAuto/home
Riders, make it easy for motorist to see you
Article Comments TED LATURNUS
August 21, 2008
According to the service manager at my local dealership, this has been an unusually bad season for motorcycle accidents. He says his shop has "tons" of busted-up bikes in various stages of disrepair all over the place and he can't recall this many insurance claims coming through in the past.
Although much of the evidence is anecdotal, some statistics seem to back up his view. According to the U.S.-based Insurance Information Institute, motorcycle fatalities are at their highest level in more than 25 years, and have been rising steadily every year since 1996.
In part, this may be because there are more bikes - and large displacement ones at that - than ever on the road these days, but it's also because there are more cars than ever out there. Our highways and byways are crowded, and riding a motorcycle or scooter is considerably riskier than it used to be.
A driver recently plowed into a group of bikes on a highway in New Brunswick, badly injuring six of them, for example, while Andrea Pininfarina, boss of the legendary Italian automotive design firm, was killed riding his scooter near Turin. There have been a rash of accidents in my hometown, Vancouver, including one on one of the busiest streets in the city. An elderly motorist turned left in front of a rider, who lost control, mounted the curb and collided with a utility pole. He died.
The most common accident scenario is one in which the motorist says he or she isn't aware of the bike: "I just didn't see him" is the refrain frequently heard by police and paramedics at these accident scenes. If you have ridden for any length of time, chances are pretty good you've been cut off by an inattentive driver who "just didn't see you." I know I have, more times than I care to remember.
According to various studies in Europe and elsewhere, part of the problem is that because a bike is so much smaller than an automobile, motorists may have a built-in sense of "safety superiority" that leads to careless attitudes and sloppy driving behaviour.
Studies also suggest that because bikes are smaller, it is more difficult for some motorists to judge their speed; if the bike is proceeding in a straight line toward the oncoming driver, the motorist is sometimes fooled about the bike's location and speed. This seems to be especially true with inexperienced and/or elderly drivers.
Despite what many riders may think, a left-turner who fails to yield the right of way is not the most common accident involving motorcyclists. It's the fourth-most common, according to the U.S. Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, accounting for at least eight per cent of all motorcycle accidents. But it is the most common mishap involving another vehicle.
(The most common accidents for bikes are lone-vehicle mishaps: a rider who fails to negotiate a turn in the road, falls off the bike, collides with something, has too much to drink, or similar situations.)
In a study conducted by the U.S. Department of Transport, almost 70 per cent of all right-of-way violations between bikes and cars were caused by a motorist who failed to yield to an oncoming motorcycle. According to the widely read Hurt Report, conducted in the late 1970s by the University of Southern California and published in 1981, two-thirds of all motorcycles accidents result from a motorist "not seeing" the bike, with predictably horrific results. And they are horrific. Don't kid yourself; a motorcycle accident is a sickening thing to witness, or be involved in. I know - I've been there.
Even at comparatively slow speeds, a rider can suffer severe injury in an accident, and there's an 80-per-cent chance he or she will suffer an injury of some kind. No question that motorcycle accidents are life-changing events.
As a rider, you can take action to make yourself more visible:
A light-coloured helmet - especially white - has been shown to increase a rider's visibility by up to 25 per cent.
Fluorescent-coloured clothing will increase your visibility odds by up to 45 per cent.
Always have your headlight on, and if you have auxiliary lights, put them on too.
Remember: as far as most motorists are concerned, you are invisible. Ride accordingly and take nothing for granted.
I would also like to send a strong, loud message to motorists: A motorcyclist is not an image. That's a real person on that bike, with a real life, who is vulnerable to stupid moves by inattentive drivers. More importantly, that rider has as much right to be there as you do. How many more of us have to be struck down, lying on the street like road kill, before drivers smarten up? How many more motorcyclists have to die or suffer serious injury before people get the message?
globeauto@globeandmail.com
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/GAM.20080821.WHBIKES21/BNStory/specialGlobeAuto/home
Thank you, OP! and the above poster. Good to see this is a safety conscious community.
H
havin_fun
Guest
With over 30 years of riding under my belt, it is my observation that many riders that crash or have a lot of "close calls" (other than the intentionally reckless) do so because they simply don't understand how a bike steers and brakes. At the track riders with several years street experience will end up crashing a perfectly capable bike because they didn't know how to get around a corner at the speed they were going. Usually well slower than the pace of others on similar bikes.
On the street this lack of understanding of the bike's inherent reactions to rider inputs can be fatal. For example, at least once a year we hear about a rider encountering an approaching vehicle on an open sweeping curve of a two-lane high at approximately 100 kph, clear sunny day, no debris on the road. Invariably the car/truck driver says, "the rider seemed a little close to the line, then just drove in front of me, I had no time to react". Facing a semi in a corner is no time to discover countersteering.
The various street rider courses should have reduced the incidence of similar crashes, and especially most single bike ones. But since bike crash percentages have not dropped dramatically over the many years, something else must be at play here.
I believe that unless essential skills like braking, countersteering and sensing traction are fully understood and practiced until they are second nature, riders will still crash unnecessarily. Even the most low-tech bike is capable of seemingly amazing handling with a very experienced rider in control. All the stuff on the OP's list and from others are great advice, but if the rider has the big bits like braking and steering well in hand, the rest just follows.
So "just taking the course" is not enough. Be prepared to keep learning about riding skills until you decide to hang it up or move to 3 wheels. (Aren't those Piaggio MP3s the bee's knees? Almost can't wait to get REALLY old so I need one)
On the street this lack of understanding of the bike's inherent reactions to rider inputs can be fatal. For example, at least once a year we hear about a rider encountering an approaching vehicle on an open sweeping curve of a two-lane high at approximately 100 kph, clear sunny day, no debris on the road. Invariably the car/truck driver says, "the rider seemed a little close to the line, then just drove in front of me, I had no time to react". Facing a semi in a corner is no time to discover countersteering.
The various street rider courses should have reduced the incidence of similar crashes, and especially most single bike ones. But since bike crash percentages have not dropped dramatically over the many years, something else must be at play here.
I believe that unless essential skills like braking, countersteering and sensing traction are fully understood and practiced until they are second nature, riders will still crash unnecessarily. Even the most low-tech bike is capable of seemingly amazing handling with a very experienced rider in control. All the stuff on the OP's list and from others are great advice, but if the rider has the big bits like braking and steering well in hand, the rest just follows.
So "just taking the course" is not enough. Be prepared to keep learning about riding skills until you decide to hang it up or move to 3 wheels. (Aren't those Piaggio MP3s the bee's knees? Almost can't wait to get REALLY old so I need one)
M
McBiker
Guest
All those points are 100% true. Thanks for this post.
K
Kawi-G
Guest
When ever I'm out I play a game.
"Who's going to be the idiot toady"
Theres almost an idiot who's right on my rear wheel, or pulls out in front of me beacause he doesn't see me or doesn't care. There's the guy who's on his cell phone, smoking and drinking his Tim's all at the same time while he's trying to make a lane change with his horse trailer. Or the idiot I haven't met yet.
This frame of mind has me looking for the idiot, not him not seeing me.
"Who's going to be the idiot toady"
Theres almost an idiot who's right on my rear wheel, or pulls out in front of me beacause he doesn't see me or doesn't care. There's the guy who's on his cell phone, smoking and drinking his Tim's all at the same time while he's trying to make a lane change with his horse trailer. Or the idiot I haven't met yet.
This frame of mind has me looking for the idiot, not him not seeing me.
Griffin
Well-known member
I was being a bit of an idiot back in August. I was up near Haliburton enjoying some very curvy roads and clipping along at a good pace. Coming around a sweeping inside right hander I was getting right on to the centre line. And, found a mini-van crowding the cenre line too, coming the other way.
My speed was too high for the corner and my comfort and I had one of those "oh crap" moments. Braking was no option so I put my faith in my rubber and counter steered until I was dragging my pegs. Turned out to be one of the better corners I've ever taken, as far as speed and lean goes. It did scare the crap out of me though.
My point is that you do have more traction than you think. If you're running out of road on a corner, put more lean on your machine.
My speed was too high for the corner and my comfort and I had one of those "oh crap" moments. Braking was no option so I put my faith in my rubber and counter steered until I was dragging my pegs. Turned out to be one of the better corners I've ever taken, as far as speed and lean goes. It did scare the crap out of me though.
My point is that you do have more traction than you think. If you're running out of road on a corner, put more lean on your machine.
Y
yamaha_99
Guest
thanks a lot for the post i crash on turns i ** hate turns
hytong
New member
braking in mid corner
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FdcL_ID_5d4
pre: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tibh6uuFBrQ
post: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=R2DL947zCqE
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=FdcL_ID_5d4
pre: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tibh6uuFBrQ
post: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=R2DL947zCqE
johnp
Well-known member
If you're approaching an intersection and opposing traffic might turn left in front of you
please
accompany a car through the intersection so that the left turn guy has to take out the car too.
Slow down, speed up do whatever it takes to make sure you're not going through the intersection all by yourself.
Thank you.
please
accompany a car through the intersection so that the left turn guy has to take out the car too.
Slow down, speed up do whatever it takes to make sure you're not going through the intersection all by yourself.
Thank you.
