Well written and every word is true. Another sure one to bite us on the *** is very early in the season .... watch for all that winter sand and gravel until we've had at least one really good rain storm ... especially on your favorite on ramp.
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+ Why we crash +
- Thread starter rizvi
- Start date
Salos Dafee
Well-known member
I took an unexpected tumble, on Jane Street, one day in March 1962. Yup, 1962. The weather was more like May than March, and I was enjoying the relative warmth of 10ºC ... but we were still calling it 50ºF then because Herr Trudeau had not yet reached power.
Anyway, I was in my first year of motorcycling, so a lot of things were new to me. I rode under a railway overpass, only one lane wide. Foolishly, I was in the middle of my lane.
Suddenly, my front wheel encountered a big block of ice, right where automobile tires could not touch it. The ice deflected my wheel to one side and down I went in a flash. I was bruised, and the crash bars were more scratched, but there was no injury and no damage.
I learned a lesson that day, and I used it today, 46 years later, in Sarasota Florida where the weather is just what you would expect it to be.
When barriers force traffic into one lane, automobiles and trucks will clear the crap away from where their tires go and pile it into the middle of the lane. Do not ride in the middle; follow either the left tire track or the right tire track instead.
Anyway, I was in my first year of motorcycling, so a lot of things were new to me. I rode under a railway overpass, only one lane wide. Foolishly, I was in the middle of my lane.
Suddenly, my front wheel encountered a big block of ice, right where automobile tires could not touch it. The ice deflected my wheel to one side and down I went in a flash. I was bruised, and the crash bars were more scratched, but there was no injury and no damage.
I learned a lesson that day, and I used it today, 46 years later, in Sarasota Florida where the weather is just what you would expect it to be.
When barriers force traffic into one lane, automobiles and trucks will clear the crap away from where their tires go and pile it into the middle of the lane. Do not ride in the middle; follow either the left tire track or the right tire track instead.
old thread i started, some good stories of how/why riders went down...
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=29278&highlight=crash+history
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=29278&highlight=crash+history
Rifleman
Member
That would be either the one just north of Steeles or the one at St Clair ?
In any event, there is always a lower speed at which we can go, which would help the situation.......... but some people tell me " oh no,...I can't go that slow " to which my response is......" don't ***** when you fall.....accept responsibility for the speed you ride at !".... and most of all, like this rider, LEARN from your experience ! ! !
I totally accept responsibility for every fall I've ever taken.......not that I've fallen yet
.......been riding since the mid 60's too, when I lived just off Jane St., north of Wilson..........
Salos Dafee
Well-known member
Howdy, Rifleman,
I like riding in your province!
The site of my fall in March 1962 was the underpass on Jane Street just south of St. Clair, if my memory is accurate. I haven't been to that exact site for quite a while, and I suspect the road may be more than one lane in each direction now. I didn't give the exact site because of those uncertainties.
It was so absolutely sudden that I was amazed. That lump of ice between the tire tracks was as black as the road from embedded grime. Being in the shadow of the railroad bridge overhead, it was invisible to me, because I was coming from the sunshine of a rare brilliant day in March. I suspect the permanent shade let that lump of ice endure until mid-April!
The memory of that bruising fall has kept me from a lot of falls since, and will serve me well soon. On Thursday I need to ride from Sarasota to Orlando and back, some 350 miles in all, then on Saturday I will be riding south of Lake Okeechobee and camping in a tent. I guess I will do about 800 miles before Monday. I will see a lot of unfamiliar pavement, together with some gravel and dirt to keep me from getting complacent.
I like riding in your province!
The site of my fall in March 1962 was the underpass on Jane Street just south of St. Clair, if my memory is accurate. I haven't been to that exact site for quite a while, and I suspect the road may be more than one lane in each direction now. I didn't give the exact site because of those uncertainties.
It was so absolutely sudden that I was amazed. That lump of ice between the tire tracks was as black as the road from embedded grime. Being in the shadow of the railroad bridge overhead, it was invisible to me, because I was coming from the sunshine of a rare brilliant day in March. I suspect the permanent shade let that lump of ice endure until mid-April!
The memory of that bruising fall has kept me from a lot of falls since, and will serve me well soon. On Thursday I need to ride from Sarasota to Orlando and back, some 350 miles in all, then on Saturday I will be riding south of Lake Okeechobee and camping in a tent. I guess I will do about 800 miles before Monday. I will see a lot of unfamiliar pavement, together with some gravel and dirt to keep me from getting complacent.
taxnatural
Well-known member
great post man.....words to live by
Golluk
Well-known member
number 127.
Becuase your to focused on the ice patches on the driveway, you try setting your bike on the kickstand that is in the upright position, instead setting your bike down on its brand new left fairing... followed by choice words and a strong feeling of stupidity.
Becuase your to focused on the ice patches on the driveway, you try setting your bike on the kickstand that is in the upright position, instead setting your bike down on its brand new left fairing... followed by choice words and a strong feeling of stupidity.
Yeah...it was a great post...right up to the part about not wearing a helmet. Go right ahead
Let's hope you have a helluva time finding an insurance co to take you on - and - when you end up in the hospital a vegetable, don't expect the strained medical system I help pay for to take care of you.
Sounds to me like you've already bailed off a few times with no helmet on.
Let's hope you have a helluva time finding an insurance co to take you on - and - when you end up in the hospital a vegetable, don't expect the strained medical system I help pay for to take care of you.
Sounds to me like you've already bailed off a few times with no helmet on.
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I don't get all the "I pay for your health care, so wear what I say" crap. That can be taken one step farther, <sarcasm>I pay for YOUR health care and riding a motorcycle is dangerous...you should not be riding because it isn't fair to the rest of us when you crash and break your leg!!</sarcasm>
It's a hypocritical attitude!! I'm all for wearing helmets, but come up with a different argument!!
Read it again...it doesn't read "what I say"...it's common sense and a sense of responsibility beyond that of a spoiled 5 year old.
There's 3 (at least) reasons to wear a helmet
1 - It's smart
2 - It's the law
3 - What right does he or anyone else have to ignore the law and risk ending up under the care of the country / province, when heeding the law just might let you walk away?
If you have obyed the law & and let common sense guide you (assuming of course you actually have any) and taken all reasonable steps to protect yourself, then you are entitled to the same care as anyone else. You don't want to wear a helmet? I really couldn't care less - but I think the law should demand you sign a waiver agreeing to pay your own medical costs for head injuries.
I lived in BC for most of the last 45 years.....until Washington State brought in helmet laws in the mid-late 80's, we watched countless idiots ride down to the Douglas Border Crossing, strap their $300 helmet to the back of their bike and ride on South. I always marveled at the breathtaking stupidity and hypocrisy of that.
There's 3 (at least) reasons to wear a helmet
1 - It's smart
2 - It's the law
3 - What right does he or anyone else have to ignore the law and risk ending up under the care of the country / province, when heeding the law just might let you walk away?
If you have obyed the law & and let common sense guide you (assuming of course you actually have any) and taken all reasonable steps to protect yourself, then you are entitled to the same care as anyone else. You don't want to wear a helmet? I really couldn't care less - but I think the law should demand you sign a waiver agreeing to pay your own medical costs for head injuries.
I lived in BC for most of the last 45 years.....until Washington State brought in helmet laws in the mid-late 80's, we watched countless idiots ride down to the Douglas Border Crossing, strap their $300 helmet to the back of their bike and ride on South. I always marveled at the breathtaking stupidity and hypocrisy of that.
coolridercool
Member
question? aint sure if its asked before. when pulling a front wheel wheelie sometimes the front wheel when lands on the road goes out of control and rider falls or hits something. why? i know if u pull it too fast suddenly the bike rolls over on you.
thanks
thanks
Salos Dafee
Well-known member
I don't think Pete E's impassioned rant belongs in this thread. Read the title. In fact, the wearing of a helmet can contribute to a crash.
Face it, please. Every safety device can also be a hazard. Consider a fire extinguisher, placed where it can be reached to put out a fire. That object is heavy, and it can fall on someone and cause a severe injury.
Does that mean fire extinguishers should be locked to the wall so they can't fall? Of course not, because a lock would delay or prevent the use of the extinguisher, possibly costing lives.
A helmet covers the rider's ears, thereby impairing hearing. The helmet makes noise, further interfering with the hearing of important sounds such as horns, sirens, and even shouts. If the rider can see any part of the helmet while wearing it, then the helmet is reducing the rider's peripheral vision. A helmet can trap insects; in fact, I have seen a fellow rider stop in a tremendous hurry and throw off his helmet in great pain from multiple hornet stings. If you doubt insects could cause a rider to crash, please think again.
These impairments can cause the rider to be unaware of a danger, and to then fall prey to the danger. Does that mean that we should not wear helmets? Not in my opinion, and not in the opinion of those who choose to wear helmets where they are optional. I ride with very many Floridians, for whom helmets are optional. This year, 22 out of 22 of my riding companions have worn helmets every inch of those rides, and so have I.
My point, at last, is this: sometimes the hazard imposed by the helmet turns out to be the reason for the crash. I think such an event is rare, but I am not so foolish as to suppose the helmet never contributes to the crash.
Face it, please. Every safety device can also be a hazard. Consider a fire extinguisher, placed where it can be reached to put out a fire. That object is heavy, and it can fall on someone and cause a severe injury.
Does that mean fire extinguishers should be locked to the wall so they can't fall? Of course not, because a lock would delay or prevent the use of the extinguisher, possibly costing lives.
A helmet covers the rider's ears, thereby impairing hearing. The helmet makes noise, further interfering with the hearing of important sounds such as horns, sirens, and even shouts. If the rider can see any part of the helmet while wearing it, then the helmet is reducing the rider's peripheral vision. A helmet can trap insects; in fact, I have seen a fellow rider stop in a tremendous hurry and throw off his helmet in great pain from multiple hornet stings. If you doubt insects could cause a rider to crash, please think again.
These impairments can cause the rider to be unaware of a danger, and to then fall prey to the danger. Does that mean that we should not wear helmets? Not in my opinion, and not in the opinion of those who choose to wear helmets where they are optional. I ride with very many Floridians, for whom helmets are optional. This year, 22 out of 22 of my riding companions have worn helmets every inch of those rides, and so have I.
My point, at last, is this: sometimes the hazard imposed by the helmet turns out to be the reason for the crash. I think such an event is rare, but I am not so foolish as to suppose the helmet never contributes to the crash.
I understand the point you're making, but I'm trying to visualize the whole play. Doesnt the blue triangle change constantly as the two cars get closer together? Where, if the goal is to be outside the blue triangle, one lane position is ideal when the cars have a certain relationship and another lane position is ideal when the cars have a different relationship? Anyway, I'm a little creeped out about being to close to oncoming traffic. One inattentive swerve (reaching for a spilled latte) and the car could be in your lane.Salos brings up a scenario that has always made me wonder if one particular riding habit the handbook suggests is safe.
The handbook suggests that everyone should always stay on the right-most lane, and leave the other lanes for passing, but I believe it should be the opposite for us motorcyclists, I believe we should always stay in the left-most lane when possible.
A picture is worth a thousand words, so I whipped up a few diagrams.
So to keep with the wording/tone on the original post, I believe:
We crash because we don't stay in the most visible positions at all times - the left most lane.
Do you guys agree with my little theory? Feel free to bash it, with valid points, if you disagree.
Salos Dafee
Well-known member
inreb,
Yes, as vehicles move, the blind spot changes. Specifically, car B (ahead of you going your way) hides you from car A (coming at you and maybe planning to turn left) at different times, depending on where you are with respect to car B.
If you are riding bike 1, following car B in the same lane, leave enough room so the driver of car A can see you early. It helps to wiggle your headlight across car A, but conditions may make that a poor idea. Either the driver of car A will see you and not turn, or there will be time for you to avoid car A or at least brake a lot before hitting it (yes, I have done both). When car C changes lanes and gets between you and car B, then it is your new car B; mutter curses if you like, but fall back and leave room. If you do, you may be delayed; if you don't you may be injured or worse.
If you are riding bike 2, following car B in a lane to the right of car B, then you will enter and leave the blind spots of oncoming drivers (car A and then the next car A, etc.) as vehicles move. The vital thing is to stay reasonably close to car B (but still in a lane to its right) so that car A doesn't have time to hit you, even if the driver never sees you. Indeed, even if the driver of car A hurries the turn, when car A misses car B, it must go behind you ... if you have timed things right.
And there is a hazard associated with this safety manoeuvre. You are probably in the blind spot of the driver of car B! As soon as you have positioned yourself so that car A cannot hit you, put some more attention into watching the posture of the driver of car B. Maybe ooze forward until you are even, and look at the driver and try to judge if you have been seen; if not, please select another car B. There will be one along any minute now, especially in GTA!
But do not concentrate hard on any particular vehicle, because more of them are presenting hazards from all directions. You have to keep your eyes moving. My signature is never more relevant than it is now:
Yes, as vehicles move, the blind spot changes. Specifically, car B (ahead of you going your way) hides you from car A (coming at you and maybe planning to turn left) at different times, depending on where you are with respect to car B.
If you are riding bike 1, following car B in the same lane, leave enough room so the driver of car A can see you early. It helps to wiggle your headlight across car A, but conditions may make that a poor idea. Either the driver of car A will see you and not turn, or there will be time for you to avoid car A or at least brake a lot before hitting it (yes, I have done both). When car C changes lanes and gets between you and car B, then it is your new car B; mutter curses if you like, but fall back and leave room. If you do, you may be delayed; if you don't you may be injured or worse.
If you are riding bike 2, following car B in a lane to the right of car B, then you will enter and leave the blind spots of oncoming drivers (car A and then the next car A, etc.) as vehicles move. The vital thing is to stay reasonably close to car B (but still in a lane to its right) so that car A doesn't have time to hit you, even if the driver never sees you. Indeed, even if the driver of car A hurries the turn, when car A misses car B, it must go behind you ... if you have timed things right.
And there is a hazard associated with this safety manoeuvre. You are probably in the blind spot of the driver of car B! As soon as you have positioned yourself so that car A cannot hit you, put some more attention into watching the posture of the driver of car B. Maybe ooze forward until you are even, and look at the driver and try to judge if you have been seen; if not, please select another car B. There will be one along any minute now, especially in GTA!
But do not concentrate hard on any particular vehicle, because more of them are presenting hazards from all directions. You have to keep your eyes moving. My signature is never more relevant than it is now:
I think the main thrust of Pearls post was to question the advice given to stay furthest to the right. He argued that staying to the left gives more opportunity to be seen by oncoming traffic. I'm not convinced of this and even if it were true I still feel safer on the far right. Just an opinion of course.
Your suggestions require to many mental backflips to keep everything lined up...or maybe I'm just real tired as I read this...but I'm just as tired when I'm driving home so its all the same. Maybe I'll drink some carrot juice and read it again later.Windblazer
Member
Nail it on your garage door, "The Twelve Commendments of Cyclist", review them once in a while, good advice. Thanks
I have to agree and disagree.Salos brings up a scenario that has always made me wonder if one particular riding habit the handbook suggests is safe.
The handbook suggests that everyone should always stay on the right-most lane, and leave the other lanes for passing, but I believe it should be the opposite for us motorcyclists, I believe we should always stay in the left-most lane when possible.
A picture is worth a thousand words, so I whipped up a few diagrams.
So to keep with the wording/tone on the original post, I believe:
We crash because we don't stay in the most visible positions at all times - the left most lane.
Do you guys agree with my little theory? Feel free to bash it, with valid points, if you disagree.
In this situation you need to be visible to the oncoming car on the left.
Make yourself as visible as possible or use the car going the same direction as the rider as a blocking mechanism.
The part I disagree with is the need to stay in the left lane because there is also a need to be visible to a car turning from a side street on the right side of this diagram. The diagram basically flips and the danger is now from the opposite side and so are the defense mechanisms.
From a safety point of view, when streets intersect, lane choice is pretty important but dependent on the situation!
S
smalz
Guest
Everyone should be forced o view the aforementioned site before they ride.
Reality Check: http://www.ride2die.com (WARNING: Extremely Graphical)
Reality Check: http://www.ride2die.com (WARNING: Extremely Graphical)
H
Hoofhearted
Guest
I always find helmet debates funny. It seems that those who don't want to wear a helmet will bring up the drining/smoking/God knows what else to argue why they shoudn't wear a helmet. On another forum it was flogged to death. One guy did make a point the if you won't wear a helmet can he pull the plug on your life support so he doesn't have to waste money on an idiot. I often wonder why every race organization in the world requires helmet to be worn when racing. Road riding is a lot more dangerous than racing. When you race everyone is going the same direction and there is no cross traffic. Plus most everyone has an idea as to what they are doing. Road riding requires a lot of awareness and a huge amount of attention to your surroundings. I'm an old fart and I thank the Lord that the stupidity I indulged in in my youth didn't get me an early termination. Keep your eyes open. And always remember that everyone on the road is an idiot except you. Try not to join them.
doesnt SVrider.com also have a forum called "why we drool" and "why we talk slower" as well?????
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