Whitby Accident Victim Identified

[turbodish]

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This both agree and disagree with you on this . For the most part it is true but I do know exceptions. When I was younger we proved out the following:

I agree with what you posted, but fact is that cops will stop based on vehicle profiling because such profiling can be an effective screening tool. What proportion of sportbikes are running around without insurance? Would you expect the same proportion among heavy touring bikes? Same goes with targeted sweeps for vehicle safety inspections - the beaters will get pulled over long before the shiny newer cars because that is where you're more likely to find safety deficiencies.

In the end though, your own experience tells the story. With or without sticker, you were on your way fairly quickly and painlessly. The cop didn't "manufacture" a charge (valid or otherwise) even though he easily could have on each occasion. I think this reflects the mainstream experience among drivers stopped other than those stopped while hooligan-driving or hooligan-riding.

 

[Shaman]

Funny...civilised societies all have laws that we as the general public do not individually make up. What makes us a civilised society is the fact that the vast majority of us follow those laws. We have places for the people that don't follow the laws...paid for, oddly, by the people that do.

So, just shut up and accept bad laws, right? That's your message?

@#$^ cronyism.

This attitude makes me physically ill.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

A number of riders died this year when their "guarantees" failed to hold..

Show facts, not your opinion misrepresented as fact (like you usually do). I count one passenger dead and no riders in actual police chases this year.

 

[Shaman]

Show facts, not your opinion misrepresented as fact (like you usually do). I count one passenger dead and no riders in actual police chases this year.

He's using TurboMath <TM>

 

[turbodish]

Show facts, not your opinion misrepresented as fact (like you usually do). I count one passenger dead and no riders in actual police chases this year.

A rider who dies while fleeing from the cops has effectively died running from the cops whether or not the police part of the chase has already been called off.

 

[klr_guy]

So, just shut up and accept bad laws, right? That's your message?

@#$^ cronyism.

This attitude makes me physically ill.

So what are you doing about it, other than constant complaints on a message board?

 

[blackcamaro]

I can't believe anyone thinks it is acceptable to run from the cops. Regardless of HTA172 you put peoples lives at risk, it is as simple as that. I understand people make bad calls and I don't look down on someone who was caught up in the moment and ran but to have that as your plan when you go out or get lit up is just crazy. I hope for everyone's sake these people lose there license and are no longer able to drive.

 

[AGAVE]

I agree with what you posted, but fact is that cops will stop based on vehicle profiling because such profiling can be an effective screening tool.

I see.
Does that mean being a black person on a sportbike doubles the chances of being pulled over?

 

[jc100]

So, just shut up and accept bad laws, right? That's your message?

@#$^ cronyism.

This attitude makes me physically ill.

Bad laws according to who? You? The majority of the population?

Your opinion is that this is a bad law and should be scrapped...mine isn't. Who says who is right?

 

[ZX600]

A rider who dies while fleeing from the cops has effectively died running from the cops whether or not the police part of the chase has already been called off.

really, so if I die on an accident this month, means I was part of your statistic cause I ran from a cop last month?

What is the cut off, going home and having a shower? 10 km after the chase? a happy ending visit to the gf?

 

[backmarkerducati]

I agree with what you posted, but fact is that cops will stop based on vehicle profiling because such profiling can be an effective screening tool. What proportion of sportbikes are running around without insurance? Would you expect the same proportion among heavy touring bikes? Same goes with targeted sweeps for vehicle safety inspections - the beaters will get pulled over long before the shiny newer cars because that is where you're more likely to find safety deficiencies.

In the end though, your own experience tells the story. With or without sticker, you were on your way fairly quickly and painlessly. The cop didn't "manufacture" a charge (valid or otherwise) even though he easily could have on each occasion. I think this reflects the mainstream experience among drivers stopped other than those stopped while hooligan-driving or hooligan-riding.

For the most part yes but...

I did get pulled over on Eglington while riding my Ducati. The Metro officer said he pulled me over for not having mirrors--I pointed out my bar-end mirrors--he THEN said I was speeding 30 over! It was rush hour and I was moving with the flow, no way I was 30 over (10 tops). The officer was incredibly rude and aggressive even before I said a word, as far as I know I was not rude etc.--I don't know his opinion. The charge was easily beaten in court. One incident but they have and do manufacture charges.

Then there is this: http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...harged-for-allegedly-falsifying-traffic-stops

So in short there may be a handful of bad cops out there but they are out there. Still no reason to run but I will say that HTA172 scares the crap out of me because I do not get my day in court (both from my Eglington experience and due to the OPP case above), I can only imagine what it does to those who are actually purposely breaking the laws.

We don't have the actual real stats to know if it is really casing wide scale running.

 

[Shaman]

So what are you doing about it, other than constant complaints on a message board?

It may surprise you to know that I've written several messages to various and sundry in our government. It may also surprise you, since most people think we have some sort of democratic process in Canadian governance, that they have without fail come back with a canned response thanking me for contacting them, without any real consideration.

The government doesn't listen to the public unless the public gets really good and mad about it. The courts and enforcement services even less so. So what to do but ***** about it to anyone that will listen, and give a little money from time to time to the Council of Canadians?

You tell me. The governments are deliberately and noticably making it very difficult for the public to have any real affect on governance. Think of how long the Internet has been a staple... do you recall any governing body inviting feedback or voting on issues?

 

[Shaman]

So in short there may be a handful of bad cops out there but they are out there.

If there were good cops, there'd be no bad cops.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

A rider who dies while fleeing from the cops has effectively died running from the cops whether or not the police part of the chase has already been called off.

That's nice. Now answer the question. I'll even let you use your very own special semantic parameters.

 

[ZX600]

Which begs the question as to what where you doing when he pulled you over in the first place, and did you fail the attitude test?

.

I did get pulled over on Eglington while riding my Ducati. The Metro officer said he pulled me over for not having mirrors--I pointed out my bar-end mirrors--he THEN said I was speeding 30 over! It was rush hour and I was moving with the flow, no way I was 30 over (10 tops). The officer was incredibly rude and aggressive even before I said a word, as far as I know I was not rude etc.--I don't know his opinion. The charge was easily beaten in court. One incident but they have and do manufacture charges.
.

It must have been your fault no doubt; cops always act with integrity and professionalism

 

[Shaman]

Bad laws according to who? You? The majority of the population?

How would you know? People like you just want to stifle the conversation before it even happens. The vast majority of people who I explain HTA 172 to think it's absurd, just as an un-scientific poll.

Of course, I don't say to them "this is a new law that will keep your family safe and the nutcases off the road," because that isn't the truth... but it's I'm sure what people like you and turbodish present it as.

But forget all that, it's a bad law and it's been proven by at least two cases which found that HTA 172 breaches the charter of rights. And essentially, the police forces publicly ignored the judges. Or, do you believe in the police but not in the courts... attaching a term of imprisonment to an absolute liabilty offence was deemed unconstitutional in 1985.

 

[turbodish]

How would you know? People like you just want to stifle the conversation before it even happens. The vast majority of people who I explain HTA 172 to think it's absurd, just as an un-scientific poll.

There's a demented homeless guy always begging for change on a corner that I pass by on occasion. If I stop and give him some spare change, my reward is to have him thank me and earnestly "explain" to me of the aliens that are taking over people's minds and how to best protect myself against them. He really does seem to believe it. You know, rather than tell him he's out to lunch, I just nod my head, thank him, and carry on. I'm sure that he thinks that I agree with him.

But forget all that, it's a bad law and it's been proven by at least two cases which found that HTA 172 breaches the charter of rights. And essentially, the police forces publicly ignored the judges. Or, do you believe in the police but not in the courts...

Yes, I do believe in the courts, and a HIGHER court with THREE real and experienced judges on the panel overruled the two LOWER courts. Does that sound fair to you? Or do you no longer believe in the courts now that their ruling is no longer convenient to your cause?

 

[BMANN]

It's really simple out on Ontario Highways and Roads (obviously IMO),

Ride (in our case) or Drive how you want, just be prepared to pay the consequences/penalties of your actions if/when you get caught.

I in no way support the decsion that this particular rider made, and have nothing but deepest sympathies for the family of the victim here. This post has obviously gotten off track, but it really is a "not illegal till caught" system out there. And the 50km + law has invoked the "I should run, what have i to lose" mentality since the fine and penalties are quite severe after being stopped for this offense. Ironically one of the reasons this law was put in place was to prevent innocent deaths.

 

[Shaman]

There's a demented homeless guy always begging for change on a corner that I pass by on occasion.

I never did see you as homeless. Heck, you've got an Internet connection. Sadly.

Yes, I do believe in the courts, and a HIGHER court with THREE real and experienced judges on the panel overruled the two LOWER courts. Does that sound fair to you? Or do you no longer believe in the courts now that their ruling is no longer convenient to your cause?

No, actually. It doesn't. Although Fantino called it "The Lord's Work."

Are you part of the "bring back religion to the state" wackos too?

 

[jc100]

How would you know? People like you just want to stifle the conversation before it even happens. The vast majority of people who I explain HTA 172 to think it's absurd, just as an un-scientific poll.

Of course, I don't say to them "this is a new law that will keep your family safe and the nutcases off the road," because that isn't the truth... but it's I'm sure what people like you and turbodish present it as.

But forget all that, it's a bad law and it's been proven by at least two cases which found that HTA 172 breaches the charter of rights. And essentially, the police forces publicly ignored the judges. Or, do you believe in the police but not in the courts... attaching a term of imprisonment to an absolute liabilty offence was deemed unconstitutional in 1985.

My unscientific poll suggests absolutely the opposite to yours. Again, just because you say so don't make it right. Saying anyone opposed to your point of view is a mindless apathetic sheep that deserves what they get is precisely the type of thinking a nice man called Torquemada used to use. ie, you don't believe what I believe therefore you must be wrong.

Ever thought that perhaps the reason politicians don't do anything about the law is that there maybe as many people, or more, in favour as against? You have to at least accept that possibility as distasteful to you as it may seem.

Also I really don't think the majority of the population believes the police force are rotten to the core. As has been pointed out there are bad apples everywhere. You have to ask though, if you have a lot of experience with the police...why is that? There's only three reasons really:

1. You are a police officer
2. You are being persecuted and harassed
3. You do things contrary to the laws of the country/province that catch their attention

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