Whitby Accident Victim Identified

[macrider]

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I wonder if this Derek Sealy is on this GTAM board?
I have a few choice words for this idiot.
In his 33 years he still hasnt grown up.

 

[CanadianBiker]

What are the bases or facts for you to come to this conclusion - I will give you an example of another case, mine; I would have never even consider running, now I have. I got insurance, my bike is legal my license is fine. Why have I? not because I was over 50, just because I won’t risk to be stopped and be at the mercy of a police officer that was given the power to take my property away without me having any way to prove I haven't done anything wrong, and if I go to court and prove it, I am still out of thousands of dollars. Is not going to happen. I won't run if I have a passenger or if I am in a school zone, that's it. Flame away but it doesn't change the fact that my mind was changed the day that law came into effect.

As I said, the one case doesn't prove anything, except about that particular rider, and my conclusion about most runners being guilty of other serious infractions is based solely on my own bias.
Though I suppose it would be only be a matter of checking the charges brought against those who run and are caught.
As for your decision to run if pulled over, that's your call. I can only assume that if a driver in a car made the same call and plowed into you as a result, you would be understanding.

 

[jc100]

Nice to see we have such a lot of responsible, mature, role models for younger riders on this site.

 

[turbodish]

Nice to see we have such a lot of responsible, mature, role models for younger riders on this site.

What's even nicer to see is the number of motorcycles being successfully stopped after such initial "failure to stops". The cops are upping their game strategies. The riders are facing charges for the original reason for the stop plus they get the booby prize of criminal fail to stop for police and/or dangerous driving charges as a bonus. Way to go champs.

To those who say they will run, let's hope the same happens to you when your turn comes up. It's still a preferably outcome when compared to the multiple deaths that have been an alternate outcome on too many occasions this year.

 

[ZX600]

As I said, the one case doesn't prove anything, except about that particular rider, and my conclusion about most runners being guilty of other serious infractions is based solely on my own bias.
Though I suppose it would be only be a matter of checking the charges brought against those who run and are caught.
As for your decision to run if pulled over, that's your call. I can only assume that if a driver in a car made the same call and plowed into you as a result, you would be understanding.

I understand you are trying to make a point, but we all know police officers are most likely to pull the book on someone riding a Bike than someone on a car as it happen to me, the cop actually spent 5 minutes looking through a little black book to see what he could charge me with and called his supervisor with a smirk on his face.

...and to everyone else, your opinions of me about my decision of running are of no relevance. I am offering my opinion so people can see all sides of the coin, I am not advising or telling anyone to follow my example, neither do I presume to be an example to the new riders or for that matter any rider on this so called community.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

What's even nicer to see is the number of motorcycles being successfully stopped after such initial "failure to stops". The cops are upping their game strategies. The riders are facing charges for the original reason for the stop plus they get the booby prize of criminal fail to stop for police and/or dangerous driving charges as a bonus. Way to go champs.

To those who say they will run, let's hope the same happens to you when your turn comes up. It's still a preferably outcome when compared to the multiple deaths that have been an alternate outcome on too many occasions this year.

 

[turbodish]

I understand you are trying to make a point, but we all know police officers are most likely to pull the book on someone riding a Bike than someone on a car as it happen to me, the cop actually spent 5 minutes looking through a little black book to see what he could charge me with and called his supervisor with a smirk on his face.

Which begs the question as to what where you doing when he pulled you over in the first place, and did you fail the attitude test?

As other riders here have posted on many an occasion, they ride all manner of bikes and either never get pulled over, or if they do are treated fairly and respectfully and even occasionally let off without a ticket.

If a particular rider seems to never get the breaks, maybe that rider needs to have a good look in the mirror.

 

[RetroGrouch]

Nice to see we have such a lot of responsible, mature, role models for younger riders on this site.

No one should be expected to be role model if they don't chose to. You reap what you sow. Ride like a dick and expect to be treated as such. I no longer give a rat's anus what my "fellow motorcyclist" does anymore. My insurance has stabilized and I don't give the cops a reason to pull me over.

 

[turbodish]

You reap what you sow. Ride like a dick and expect to be treated as such.

+1 for sure.

 

[jc100]

No one should be expected to be role model if they don't chose to. You reap what you sow. Ride like a dick and expect to be treated as such. I no longer give a rat's anus what my "fellow motorcyclist" does anymore. My insurance has stabilized and I don't give the cops a reason to pull me over.

You're actually a role model and you don't know it (admit it, you're just reluctant).

The problem is that there will always be peer pressure in many things we do that affect younger people (and some oldies too). Peer pressure when it comes to getting your bike (eg oooh..must get shiny fast SS bike because friends have them) and then how you ride (eg mustn't look like knob in front of friends..I will take this corner as fast as they do or run from cops if they do).

 

[ZX600]

Which begs the question as to what where you doing when he pulled you over in the first place, and did you fail the attitude test?

.

Actually, I'll tell you exactly what I was doing (to bad newfieboy is banned cause he was witness)

I was in John and Richmond at 2am, trying to make a right turn, there was a line up of cars going straight and I walked my bike while on it (cause of the amount of people walking around) and made the right, so my speed was the speed of someone walking on top of a bike (maybe 2km/h) the cop put his light on, I stop walking and parked my bike, took the key off and my helmet off. He asked me if I knew why he stopped me and I said "honestly for the first time I have no clue" he then said "you guys in sport bikes think you can do whatever you want" and told me he was going to charge me with reckless driving (i guess maybe reckless walking would be more appropriate)

I did not say another word and sat on the side walk for about 10 min while he looked at the little book and called his supervisor - He came out rushing and said to me "my supervisor asked me to charge you with reckless driving and stunting but someone just got shot so I have to go, this is your lucky day"

I had nothing to win by giving him attitude, I knew he would use anything i said in court against me so I decided to not say a word. Actually he didn't ask me anything for me to even give him attitude.

It seems I walked the bike on his lane while trying to make a right, I guess I did and that should have been a charge of improper lane change but he really had something to proff.

End of rant.

 

[jc100]

I work in academia...in order to get an important message across to less academically gifted students we often have to repeat a topic ad nauseum.

 

[ddusseld]

The preferable and the almost guaranteed outcome is getting away. The police do not report on the number of runners who have successfully run, do they? Would not want the truth to muddy up the situation...

What's even nicer to see is the number of motorcycles being successfully stopped after such initial "failure to stops". The cops are upping their game strategies. The riders are facing charges for the original reason for the stop plus they get the booby prize of criminal fail to stop for police and/or dangerous driving charges as a bonus. Way to go champs.

To those who say they will run, let's hope the same happens to you when your turn comes up. It's still a preferably outcome when compared to the multiple deaths that have been an alternate outcome on too many occasions this year.

 

[turbodish]

The preferable and the almost guaranteed outcome is getting away. The police do not report on the number of runners who have successfully run, do they? Would not want the truth to muddy up the situation...

"Almost guaranteed" outcome is not a guaranteed outcome. A number of riders died this year when their "guarantees" failed to hold. Others now have criminal conviction records and penalties. Either is far worse than a simple HTA conviction. Is it really worth rolling the dice when your life may be forfeit on a bad roll?

Anyone here promoting the idea that running is preferable to stopping is in part responsible for any bad outcome that results when another takes that advice.

 

[ZX600]

"Almost guaranteed" outcome is not a guaranteed outcome. A number of riders died this year when their "guarantees" failed to hold. Others now have criminal conviction records and penalties. Either is far worse than a simple HTA conviction. Is it really worth rolling the dice when your life may be forfeit on a bad roll?

Anyone here promoting the idea that running is preferable to stopping is in part responsible for any bad outcome that results when another takes that advice.

...

 

[backmarkerducati]

"Almost guaranteed" outcome is not a guaranteed outcome. A number of riders died this year when their "guarantees" failed to hold. Others now have criminal conviction records and penalties. Either is far worse than a simple HTA conviction. Is it really worth rolling the dice when your life may be forfeit on a bad roll?

Anyone here promoting the idea that running is preferable to stopping is in part responsible for any bad outcome that results when another takes that advice.

There are lots of studies that show the likelihood of being caught is as powerful a motivation as the penalty. In other-words if the rider/driver has a belief (be it factual or misconception) that they will get away they will be enticed to run even though there are serious consequences. Of course each time they or someone they know is successful it compounds the issue (even if the success is Internet BS). As an "adult" we may think that is stupid but it does not change human bevaviour.

We see examples of this everyday:

-Speeding in general, can be a serious fine and of course the insurance repercussions... yet I only saw a few people in my commute today going 100 kph or less...
-People cheat on their taxes, a serious offense but they do it anyways (low chance of getting caught).
-People buy, sell and use drugs, can be a serious crime but the likelihood of being caught is low.
-People driving with no insurance and/or no license.
-People commit murder... even in places with the death penalty.

Now there are other factors but if we knew that every-time we broke the law we would be caught no one would break any laws (would you speed if every time you hit 101 kph you got pulled over and fined?). If the idiots believe they will not be caught if they run (due to their "mad skill" or the power to weight ratio of their bike versus a cruiser) they will run, damn the consequences. Maybe if they think there is a 99% chance I will get a HTA172 if I stop but a 99% chance that I will get away if I run (even if they are wrong on both), just food for thought.

 

[Shaman]

"Almost guaranteed" outcome is not a guaranteed outcome. A number of riders died this year when their "guarantees" failed to hold. Others now have criminal conviction records and penalties. Either is far worse than a simple HTA conviction. Is it really worth rolling the dice when your life may be forfeit on a bad roll?

Yeah, it really is. You seriously mis-represent the impact a HTA172 can have on a person. Just like a cop. "It's my job."

Anyone here promoting the idea that running is preferable to stopping is in part responsible for any bad outcome that results when another takes that advice.

How about the pigs? Are they responsible too? I vote yes.

 

[Shaman]

Speeding in general, can be a serious fine and of course the insurance repercussions... yet I only saw a few people in my commute today going 100 kph or less...

That's because the posted limit is not reasonable *NOR* is it safer in clear conditions. In fact, it's more dangerous, because it leads to unnecessary congestion.

-People cheat on their taxes, a serious offense but they do it anyways (low chance of getting caught).

That's because a number of taxes are unfair, or just plain offensive. For example, inheritance taxation.

-People buy, sell and use drugs, can be a serious crime but the likelihood of being caught is low.

That's because some drugs shouldn't be controlled to the extent they are... some definitely should be. Either way, the government attempting fine control of people's lives often leads to violence.

-People driving with no insurance and/or no license.

Neither acceptable these days, but the insurance issue is understandable - because some of the insurance costs are unreasonable. People won't do or accept unreasonable things.. and people like me take perverse delight in thumbing our nose at them. Just for the record, I am well-insured.

-People commit murder... even in places with the death penalty.

Some people just need a-killin'. :laughing8: Just kidding. Mostly.

Maybe if they think there is a 99% chance I will get a HTA172 if I stop but a 99% chance that I will get away if I run (even if they are wrong on both), just food for thought.

Won't be that way for everyone. Successful running requires skill and a good understanding of the roads around you. And guts. And knowledge. And luck.

 

[jc100]

Funny...civilised societies all have laws that we as the general public do not individually make up. What makes us a civilised society is the fact that the vast majority of us follow those laws. We have places for the people that don't follow the laws...paid for, oddly, by the people that do.

If I got to make up my own laws I would for example not pay any taxes, automatically own half the Carribean, and set my own work hours and pay which would of course be in the millions, I would also ban RVs from driving during the day...no heck, ban them altogether.

However, that would be irresponsible and juvenile, selfish and slightly spoilt of me to expect to only ever do things I like and want.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Which begs the question as to what where you doing when he pulled you over in the first place, and did you fail the attitude test?

As other riders here have posted on many an occasion, they ride all manner of bikes and either never get pulled over, or if they do are treated fairly and respectfully and even occasionally let off without a ticket.

If a particular rider seems to never get the breaks, maybe that rider needs to have a good look in the mirror.

This both agree and disagree with you on this . For the most part it is true but I do know exceptions. When I was younger we proved out the following:

-If you drove a beater car, put a college or university sticker on it. With the sticker you get less hassles because you are now a "starving student" not a "dirt bag in a beater." In my Pinto I got pulled over once a month for "papers", never charged with anything, just checking to make sure I had insurance etc. Put the sticker on, no more routine stops and I was pulled over once for a burnt out light and the cop said "I see you are a student, get it fixed when you can."

-If you drove a nice car DO NOT put a college or university sticker on it because if you did you are some rich university student in a 911 while the cop is slugging it out with three kids and a minivan. Buddy pulled the sticker off his RX7 and it had the same impact as adding the sticker to the Pinto.

So while I agree the attitude of the rider and what the rider is doing when they are noticed has a big influence I also KNOW that there are preconceived notions and profiling that goes on that both have as big an influence. My guess is a guy on a sport bike in a t-shirt gets pulled over more than a guy on a cruiser in a leather jacket (in the helmet one is believed to be a rich punk or a punk with no insurance the other is a 40 year old lawyer--assuming no colours...). I also bet you when pulled over the cruiser guy gets an easier time of it all based on the preconceived notion that is there before even talking to the rider.

Still not an excuse to run (I am strong on the no running side).

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