What is up with people?

[mimico_polak]

Interesting concept. The downside I see is many people may choose to pay more (virtue signalling) but then reduce tipping substantially. This would have the effect of taxing previously untaxed income. The government ostriching on tips for decades has really screwed up paths to clean up the system.

The only people against higher wages for wait staff are the servers. They complain about the hourly wage, but won’t open up about how much money they make in tax free tips.

Raise the hourly, cancel tipping, and watch the chaos ensue.

BTW…anyone notice more and more places asking for tips? Everywhere I go I’m seeing an option tip % on the reader.

Thanks for changing my oil ‘Oil Changers’ for $80…you want a tip why? Cause you did the job? LoL

 

[GreyGhost]

The only people against higher wages for wait staff are the servers. They complain about the hourly wage, but won’t open up about how much money they make in tax free tips.

Raise the hourly, cancel tipping, and watch the chaos ensue.

BTW…anyone notice more and more places asking for tips? Everywhere I go I’m seeing an option tip % on the reader.

Thanks for changing my oil ‘Oil Changers’ for $80…you want a tip why? Cause you did the job? LoL

The government accepting 10% of your wages as tips when you file taxes sets up this crapshow. I have never met anyone that maintained a serving job where they were below 100% of wages as tips. Quite often much much higher than that. Would @Evoex maintain his valet job if he got taxed on 100% of the money that came his way? Unlikely. Would a higher minimum wage change whether he wanted the job or not? Probably no effect. There are a lot of voters that don't make a ton of money but dodge most tax. Gov't trying to get them to be honest is seen as picking on the little guy (it is). Implementing a solution that just went after tips as opposed to all undeclared income is a loser. Going hard after all undeclared income unleashes a s*&^*& show. Don't get me wrong, paying tax on a side hustle normally means nobody does the side hustle as it is not worthwhile so that creates staffing issues. It would be interesting if side-hustles were fully declared but taxed differently but that goes against my ideology of eliminating tax differences based on how you made the money. I would much prefer a flat tax based on incoming money, I do not care if it was income, side hustle or dividends, that is just BS supporting the haves and kicking the have nots.

 

[nobbie48]

You are not wrong, but we need cheap labor for our farms. Without the migrant workers Farmers would have too pay a lot more in wages to get crops light the fields. Prices would rise even further than they are.

Mr and Mrs Somebody are unskilled immigrants and take home $3,000 a month between them. Not wanting to raise their kids in a slum / drug drive thru they pay $2300 a month rent. That leaves a discretionary income of $700 if you consider spending money on clean clothes and food discretionary.

Somehow they have to make the $700 work. It means that an increase in the cost of groceries is frightening but groceries are about the only place where they have any flexibility in spending.

If their rent was $2000 they would have an extra $300 a month to pay for groceries. They could afford to pay a bit more. That means the field worker could also be better off.

Those that could afford higher prices for groceries see the extra costs as impediments to them getting a new car with more options, a bigger TV, more video games.

Government policies on real estate are part of the life survival chain.

 

[nobbie48]

Is it time to start paying the "real" price? Can we afford it?

Shhh. It's a Ponzi scheme. Make your money and get out. We can afford it. Your children won't be so lucky.

 

[POWERMAN]

The only people against higher wages for wait staff are the servers. They complain about the hourly wage, but won’t open up about how much money they make in tax free tips.
Raise the hourly, cancel tipping, and watch the chaos ensue.

I'd like to see this taken one step further and have the bean counters go after twitch streams and cam girls.
I remember reading somewhere that in some cases some of these cam girls on a site called Only fans make 100k+ a MONTH.

G*d*mn

 

[GreyGhost]

Shhh. It's a Ponzi scheme. Make your money and get out. We can afford it. Your children won't be so lucky.

Now more than ever, your childrens success depends on how early you were able to buy into the ponzi scheme. If you are near the top of the pyramid, they have a big lift to help them climb. Obviously there will always be exceptions in either direction but the average kid is better off if their parents have managed to accumulate a lot of wealth (assuming the parents didn't have too much wealth and raised a useless tit).

 

[nobbie48]

The government accepting 10% of your wages as tips when you file taxes sets up this crapshow. I have never met anyone that maintained a serving job where they were below 100% of wages as tips. Quite often much much higher than that. Would @Evoex maintain his valet job if he got taxed on 100% of the money that came his way? Unlikely. Would a higher minimum wage change whether he wanted the job or not? Probably no effect. There are a lot of voters that don't make a ton of money but dodge most tax. Gov't trying to get them to be honest is seen as picking on the little guy (it is). Implementing a solution that just went after tips as opposed to all undeclared income is a loser. Going hard after all undeclared income unleashes a s*&^*& show. Don't get me wrong, paying tax on a side hustle normally means nobody does the side hustle as it is not worthwhile so that creates staffing issues. It would be interesting if side-hustles were fully declared but taxed differently but that goes against my ideology of eliminating tax differences based on how you made the money. I would much prefer a flat tax based on incoming money, I do not care if it was income, side hustle or dividends, that is just BS supporting the haves and kicking the have nots.

I'm pretty sure we all are within a degree or two of separation of someone that works under the table, collects welfare and gets numerous allowances. A friend of a friend thing but on paper the family split up so dad who is unemployed gets a housing allowance and mom gets the same plus money and allowances for the kids. They both work cash and they are pushing $100K in spendable income. No one wants to snitch. This is a number of years old and some details may have changed.

Adder: In many restaurants the tips get shared between all the staff and sometimes management / owner.

 

[FullMotoJacket]

By the time you account for commuting expenses, a few lunches and breakfasts a week pre-made etc, if you can avoid imminent collapse with cerb, financially it is hard to work. Some people are not wankers though and choose to try to be useful. It will be interesting to see what happens at the end of CERB. All of a sudden there will be a glut of wankers that need work. They are not the ones you want to hire but they will be desperate for income.

you didn’t account for the 8(ish) hours a day you’re not spending money

 

[nobbie48]

Hard to believe that two part time people not showing up for work, caused all this. I appreciate all the feedback, I've even had a few members show interest. So all in all I am pleased how this post turned out.

I thought about applying but Cambridge is a bit far. Could you send someone to pick me up. Bring a medium regular and a chocolate iced. If something else comes up I'll leave a note on my door. (Kidding)

 

[Deleted member 50930]

I'd like to see this taken one step further and have the bean counters go after twitch streams and cam girls.
I remember reading somewhere that in some cases some of these cam girls on a site called Only fans make 100k+ a MONTH.

G*d*mn

Bill C-10

 

[nobbie48]

I didn't read all 8 pages of this thread but what @Jampy00 noted early on is a common theme right now. Our business and all of the customers I service are dealing with a massive labour shortage. Obviously this is not industry related.

We started to notice a shift when the minimum wage went to $14.00. We can't and don't hire anyone at minimum wage because the job market favours the employee heavily. Those that have figured out that they hold the knife by the handle absolutely take advantage of this fact. CERB doesn't help as people are making more to stay home. Students were also qualifying for CERB so what is the incentive to work a summer job to pay tuition when you can collect pandemic money and have all your time to yourself.

Why would you work in a sweaty hot factory in the summer months when you can pour coffee and make the same money.? Don't get me wrong, I am not at all saying that pouring coffee is a demeaning job. My point is that people have a choice and if they don't like the tasks at one place they know they can go sample another. And that is exactly what some are doing IF THEY WANT TO WORK. They are sampling.

So we start people at $18 and they move to $20 in short order just to keep them. This sets off long term employees that had to work for years to get to $20. The impact on moral is crippling. But what do you do?

We rolled out an employee referral incentive plan. If you bring refer a friend or family member, you get $500 if they stay for 6 months and $1000 if they stay for a year. There is talk of this incentive moving to 3 and 6 months respectively.

I believe in the dignity of labour. I don't care what a person does as long as they do it to the best of their abilities.

Realistic expectations are a problem. I'm special.

A very realistic dad I knew told his kids they were welcome to live at home as long as they were going to school or working and contributing to the house. Minimum wage is great when you get free room and board.

When burger wages barely pays room rent, car payments and insurance the fun slows down. You couldn't afford condoms? Now you've got a really big problem.

I hear you. A two dollar minimum wage raise is a two dollar everyone raise.

The family incentive scares me. If my useless B-I-L lasts six months I get a bonus. Woohoo.

I boated with a guy that had his business suddenly grow too fast and he took on a bunch of new hires, they went union and he lost interest in the business for good reason. One new hire told him "I want what you've got and I'm not waiting until I'm as old as you are to get it."

He sold the company to an American interest and they moved it south.

 

[Jampy00]

I thought about applying but Cambridge is a bit far. Could you send someone to pick me up. Bring a medium regular and a chocolate iced. If something else comes up I'll leave a note on my door. (Kidding)

What no slipper service? You treat me to good..

 

[nobbie48]

The issues with minimum wages is complicated. From an economic point of view, it's not good for minimum wage earners for a few reasons - first it drives employers to use part more time labour, complicating cash flow or requiring multiple part time positions for workers. Next it drives up wage demands for other professions that are typically at a premium to part time wages which in turn drives automation and capital/labour flow to lower cost areas. Finally, there is a lot of low cost labour used to produce and deliver essential things like food. Every time you increase wages, you increase the costs of those items witch disproportionately increases costs for low income earners.

The other alternative is to set the minimum wage lower, encourage more full time employment, lowering the cost of basic necessities. As employments rates get closer to zero, wages naturally increase as employers compete for labour.

If I were king, I'd do a few things:
1) Set higher employer taxes on part time work hours to encourage more full time employment
2) Provide meaningful training & education to provide motivated people options to increase the value of their labour
3) Reduce gov't work where the private sector has capabilities to deliver services
4) Make the 'dole' tougher to live off. CERB is killing a lot of small businesses, why is it impossible for me to find unskilled labour at a 45% premium over min wage + full benefit package when the unemployment rate is over 8%?

What do you do with the chronic loser? Someone that has zero initiative or worth ethic? We aren't allowed to cull the herd.

I work for things and enjoy the fruits of my labour. I worked for my house, bikes and boats. Others would be just as happy stealing a bike, boat or car, living in a squat.

Harris's workfare was a good idea but unworkable. Do you want peaches slammed into a basket by someone who didn't care whether they made it to market or not?

A totally hooked drug addict knows he /she has X hours to get a new fix or their body goes ape. They need $ to get that one fix. They live by the hour. How do you incentivize them?

A better question might be "How do we stop the de-incentivization?"

 

[mimico_polak]

I'd like to see this taken one step further and have the bean counters go after twitch streams and cam girls.
I remember reading somewhere that in some cases some of these cam girls on a site called Only fans make 100k+ a MONTH.

G*d*mn

Personally, if I had the skills and time to perform a side hustle I would. I know some guys making 1-2k/weekend on cash jobs.

Good way to get ahead if you’re not an idiot with your money.

 

[油井緋色]

Now more than ever, your childrens success depends on how early you were able to buy into the ponzi scheme. If you are near the top of the pyramid, they have a big lift to help them climb. Obviously there will always be exceptions in either direction but the average kid is better off if their parents have managed to accumulate a lot of wealth (assuming the parents didn't have too much wealth and raised a useless tit).

I don't want to add to the "everything is **** pile" but...

Technology is going to make it significantly worse. Automation hasn't entirely taken off because labor in Asian countries is cheaper than R&D. How long does your average trucker, construction worker, or data entry person have?

Bill C-10

Is going to **** things up more than fix it. I don't know anyone that's for the bill that works with software. Probably bias? lol

 

[nobbie48]

Bill C-10

I'd like a clarification on C-10 which is, I am lead to believe, censorship. My fear is that C-10 would be the thin edge of the wedge to restricting legitimate criticism of the sitting government. The present government has much to fear in the way of criticism.

 

[GreyGhost]

Technology is going to make it significantly worse. Automation hasn't entirely taken off because labor in Asian countries is cheaper than R&D. How long does your average trucker, construction worker, or data entry person have?

Construction worker is in good shape. Really hard to replace most of them. No matter how hard they try to build precisely there is a hell of a lot of build-to-fit that doesn't automate well at all.

Trucker should be good for a generation or more as self-driving is BS. The question there is do the lobbyists win the battle over the people analysing safety. Long-haul trucker automates well but from the highway ramp to destination should be done by humans for a long time.

Manual data entry should mostly disappear. I am shocked that gas/water are still read by somebody walking to every house with a meter. I expect the next generation will report at a distance.

 

[nm1]

people are saying its not about the pay - but really its always about the pay with work

if the gov't continues to fail to address housing affordability, businesses that rely on paying as low as possible to stay competitive will consistently have to give raises or be stuck with the absolute bottom of the barrel

it's not that people don't want to work, it's that the pandemic has really opened their eyes to how little compensation they are receiving compared to CoL for that work

what sucks is - your business didn't cause the cost of living to rise, unless you're a hedge fund that specializes in real estate speculation...and yet you're having to bear the consequences of it in the form of needing to pay more

unfortunately the big take away from your post is you probably need to examine adding $2-3/hour to start along all your positions and then go from there

 

[Deleted member 50930]

unfortunately the big take away from your post is you probably need to examine adding $2-3/hour to start along all your positions and then go from there

Running a company is not a charity .....

Why is it the OP's job to make up for the government's poor job?

 

[GreyGhost]

Running a company is not a charity .....

Why is it the OP's job to make up for the government's poor job?

Because they need a viable business? Gov't screwed up, it is up to each business owner to determine how to fix it the best way they can. If you wait for the gov't to "fix" it, you will be bankrupt or dead before that happens.

EDIT:
If housing continues to shoot for the moon, it may revert to the old days (or remote work locations) where companies own the housing for certain employees. You will have a lot fewer problems of people not showing up for work if that means they also lose their dwelling. I have no idea how this gets started in practice. Ideally allow staff housing within industrial or commercially zoned lands (you need less parking if some of the staff lives on site).