What is up with people?

[GreyGhost]

Is it time to start paying the "real" price? Can we afford it?

The answer is probably no. It is cheaper to produce, ship and stock crap (ie potato chips) than fresh vegetables. Full price farm labor (and border restrictions to ensure imported food was equally expensive) would make fresh fruit and vegetables inaccessible to many people.

 

[Priller]

The answer is probably no. It is cheaper to produce, ship and stock crap (ie potato chips) than fresh vegetables. Full price farm labor (and border restrictions to ensure imported food was equally expensive) would make fresh fruit and vegetables inaccessible to many people.

I know it'll be an unpopular opinion here, but this is where I think targeted taxes have a place. If unhealthy but cheap food places a burden on the health care system, it should be taxed accordingly, not dissimilar to tobacco.

There's also that entirely unrecyclable crinkly packaging that has become so universal. There's zero incentive for sellers to change, as they aren't responsible for the consequences and the cost is low up front, but we all pay in the end to figure out what to do with it all...

 

[Katatonic]

I know it'll be an unpopular opinion here, but this is where I think targeted taxes have a place. If unhealthy but cheap food places a burden on the health care system, it should be taxed accordingly, not dissimilar to tobacco.

There's also that entirely unrecyclable crinkly packaging that has become so universal. There's zero incentive for sellers to change, as they aren't responsible for the consequences and the cost is low up front, but we all pay in the end to figure out what to do with it all...

Motorcycle accidents result in greater injuries and in turn result in far more healthcare dollars being spent. So motorcycles and accessories should be taxed higher? Naw, I’m good.

 

[Priller]

Motorcycle accidents result in greater injuries and in turn result in far more healthcare dollars being spent. So motorcycles and accessories should be taxed higher? Naw, I’m good.

It's such a tiny end of the market, so not apples to apples. Cheap but unhealthy food and wasteful packaging/emissions/pollution are things that touch the vast majority of Canadians. Motorcycles cover a miniscule fraction by comparison.

Also, we're already there with insurance costs, which is a fairer approximation of use. Taxing fast food or packaging covers the entire damage case in the purchase itself. Taxing motorcycles would have to be an approximation of an average over the lifetime of the product, which is much more difficult to get right.

Anyway, the mentality of "screw everyone else, I only care if it affects me," has complex societal consequences. If it could be proven that motorcycles are a unique and significant burden on society (for the record, I don't think it can), then what's so wrong with that cost being placed at the feet of those who use them?

 

[BigEvilDoer]

Our economy already blows ass because we have a boomer mindset and don't like technology lol like it or not, the robots are coming.

Oh bejesus.. get over it already...
*EVERY* generation does the best that they can to help themselves move forward in life. They don't think past their children being OK.

People in my generation (X), are doing what they can.

People in generation Y are doing what they can.

Can you, *HONESTLY* say that you are somewhat at the forefront of making changes to society to prevent capitalism from wreaking havoc to kids that are 5-10 years old now? I am guessing that you're concerned about getting ahead yourself. Having a home or house. Etc.

Not to be rude, but you've mentioned quite a few times that you despise boomers for what they've done, and that you have severe anger issues. Might be time to look into doing something about that. This coming from a place of concern, not judgement or in any negative manner.

 

[mimico_polak]

Every generation wants what’s best for itself. I love these derails but we’ve got a few members state they want a total market crash.

This is simply for them to be able to get ahead, and eff the boomers that put them in this place. And eff the rest of the economy because they want theirs.

No different then people bitching about landlords, and then changing their tunes once they become landlords…and start bitching about tenants. Same thing.

Boomers effed the next generation. This generation will eff the next one, and so on and so on. Nothing new. Been happening forever. Now if you excuse me…get off my lawn.

EDIT: since I had no clue I checked. I’m generation X (1980), but I’ll identify as millennial so I have something to ***** about.

 

[Jampy00]

Hard to believe that two part time people not showing up for work, caused all this. I appreciate all the feedback, I've even had a few members show interest. So all in all I am pleased how this post turned out.

 

[JZ67]

I didn't read all 8 pages of this thread but what @Jampy00 noted early on is a common theme right now. Our business and all of the customers I service are dealing with a massive labour shortage. Obviously this is not industry related.

We started to notice a shift when the minimum wage went to $14.00. We can't and don't hire anyone at minimum wage because the job market favours the employee heavily. Those that have figured out that they hold the knife by the handle absolutely take advantage of this fact. CERB doesn't help as people are making more to stay home. Students were also qualifying for CERB so what is the incentive to work a summer job to pay tuition when you can collect pandemic money and have all your time to yourself.

Why would you work in a sweaty hot factory in the summer months when you can pour coffee and make the same money.? Don't get me wrong, I am not at all saying that pouring coffee is a demeaning job. My point is that people have a choice and if they don't like the tasks at one place they know they can go sample another. And that is exactly what some are doing IF THEY WANT TO WORK. They are sampling.

So we start people at $18 and they move to $20 in short order just to keep them. This sets off long term employees that had to work for years to get to $20. The impact on moral is crippling. But what do you do?

We rolled out an employee referral incentive plan. If you bring refer a friend or family member, you get $500 if they stay for 6 months and $1000 if they stay for a year. There is talk of this incentive moving to 3 and 6 months respectively.

 

[Jampy00]

I didn't read all 8 pages of this thread but what @Jampy00 noted early on is a common theme right now. Our business and all of the customers I service are dealing with a massive labour shortage. Obviously this is not industry related.

We started to notice a shift when the minimum wage went to $14.00. We can't and don't hire anyone at minimum wage because the job market favours the employee heavily. Those that have figured out that they hold the knife by the handle absolutely take advantage of this fact. CERB doesn't help as people are making more to stay home. Students were also qualifying for CERB so what is the incentive to work a summer job to pay tuition when you can collect pandemic money and have all your time to yourself.

Why would you work in a sweaty hot factory in the summer months when you can pour coffee and make the same money.? Don't get me wrong, I am not at all saying that pouring coffee is a demeaning job. My point is that people have a choice and if they don't like the tasks at one place they know they can go sample another. And that is exactly what some are doing IF THEY WANT TO WORK. They are sampling.

So we start people at $18 and they move to $20 in short order just to keep them. This sets off long term employees that had to work for years to get to $20. The impact on moral is crippling. But what do you do?

We rolled out an employee referral incentive plan. If you bring refer a friend or family member, you get $500 if they stay for 6 months and $1000 if they stay for a year. There is talk of this incentive moving to 3 and 6 months respectively.

Agreed, I think this is what we saw with the 2nd part-time employee. They accepted multiple job offers (as employees are in demand) they tried us, didn't like it and moved on, the part that is disturbing is they simply leave with zero notice and refuse to answer our calls and/or emails of concern.

My father once said to me "Shake every hand on your way up and those hands are the ones that support you" Simply put don't burn your bridges.
Now it seems people burn their bridges before they are even built.

In regards to CERB it is tough, we had one guy come in for an interview (last year), we spoke about salary. Pulled out his phone and did some math to figure out the difference between working and staying home on CERB. He chose CERB as he could live with the loss.

 

[GreyGhost]

In regards to CERB it is tough, we had one guy come in for an interview (last year), we spoke about salary. Pulled out his phone and did some math to figure out the difference between working and staying home on CERB. He chose CERB as he could live with the loss.

By the time you account for commuting expenses, a few lunches and breakfasts a week pre-made etc, if you can avoid imminent collapse with cerb, financially it is hard to work. Some people are not wankers though and choose to try to be useful. It will be interesting to see what happens at the end of CERB. All of a sudden there will be a glut of wankers that need work. They are not the ones you want to hire but they will be desperate for income.

 

[mimico_polak]

I’m still burned about not applying for CERB for my wife…I’ll get over it.

Friends had some guys quit work due to being ‘scared of COVID’ so they can get the CERB.

Time to come back to work they’re all terrified of COVID, BUT….they’re able to come to work if you pay them cash…cause you know…COVID isn’t dangerous when you’re making cash AND EI/CERB.

 

[油井緋色]

Oh bejesus.. get over it already...
*EVERY* generation does the best that they can to help themselves move forward in life. They don't think past their children being OK.

People in my generation (X), are doing what they can.

People in generation Y are doing what they can.

Can you, *HONESTLY* say that you are somewhat at the forefront of making changes to society to prevent capitalism from wreaking havoc to kids that are 5-10 years old now? I am guessing that you're concerned about getting ahead yourself. Having a home or house. Etc.

Not to be rude, but you've mentioned quite a few times that you despise boomers for what they've done, and that you have severe anger issues. Might be time to look into doing something about that. This coming from a place of concern, not judgement or in any negative manner.

Already tried therapy a few times. Found out I don't think the same way others do, to stop putting myself down for it, and that's fine.

As for the bold: yes. I'm doing a lot more than most boomers were capable of. I'd rather not dive into it because it's a pissing contest then.

Hard to believe that two part time people not showing up for work, caused all this. I appreciate all the feedback, I've even had a few members show interest. So all in all I am pleased how this post turned out.

Honestly it's a weird time. Can't tell if the world was always polarized like this because I didn't give a **** when I was younger. Your situation also ties into conversations I've had with colleagues involving CERB/might-as-well-be-basic-income folk not wanting to go back to work. Hope things get better!

 

[nobbie48]

Oz style minimum wage would immediately bankrupt tim hortons. TH survives on selling swill daily for $2 a cup. Push the price of coffee to starbucks prices and they lose most of their customers overnight. Maybe them bailing isnt a bad thing (or they may pivot but they seem incapable of doing that based on previous attempts).

I would be happy if someone could make a decent flat white. Been chasing one since a visit to oz and nothing comes close.

It would be an interesting put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is poll at a fast food / coffee joint if, when placing their order, the customer was asked if they wanted to pay the employee starvation wage price or the employee living wage price. The product and quantity is the same.

 

[GreyGhost]

It would be an interesting put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is poll at a fast food / coffee joint if, when placing their order, the customer was asked if they wanted to pay the employee starvation wage price or the employee living wage price. The product and quantity is the same.

Interesting concept. The downside I see is many people may choose to pay more (virtue signalling) but then reduce tipping substantially. This would have the effect of taxing previously untaxed income. The government ostriching on tips for decades has really screwed up paths to clean up the system.

 

[Wingboy]

A good friend moved to SC years ago to help setup a southern Division of the company we worked for. He spent a week doing interviews for help in the factory. Hired 15 people by Friday. Friday afternoon someone from the soon to open McDonald's down the street put fliers on all the cars.$100 signing bonus.
Not one employee showed up Mon morning.

 

[GreyGhost]

A good friend moved to SC years ago to help setup a southern Division of the company we worked for. He spent a week doing interviews for help in the factory. Hired 15 people by Friday. Friday afternoon someone from the soon to open McDonald's down the street put fliers on all the cars.$100 signing bonus.
Not one employee showed up Mon morning.

Annoying but smart recruiting by McD's. You normally don't want the people searching for jobs, the better ones are more often already employed.

 

[Mad Mike]

That's the issue in canada and especially in America... there are people working 40+ hrs a week that have trouble paying rent, food, school etc etc. If the business can't pay a livable wage to their employees without going bankrupt they weren't a very viable business to begin with.

The fast food chains don't seem to have an issue making money in Australia even with the min wage being where it is.

And I hear you on the crap coffee in canada

The issues with minimum wages is complicated. From an economic point of view, it's not good for minimum wage earners for a few reasons - first it drives employers to use part more time labour, complicating cash flow or requiring multiple part time positions for workers. Next it drives up wage demands for other professions that are typically at a premium to part time wages which in turn drives automation and capital/labour flow to lower cost areas. Finally, there is a lot of low cost labour used to produce and deliver essential things like food. Every time you increase wages, you increase the costs of those items witch disproportionately increases costs for low income earners.

The other alternative is to set the minimum wage lower, encourage more full time employment, lowering the cost of basic necessities. As employments rates get closer to zero, wages naturally increase as employers compete for labour.

If I were king, I'd do a few things:
1) Set higher employer taxes on part time work hours to encourage more full time employment
2) Provide meaningful training & education to provide motivated people options to increase the value of their labour
3) Reduce gov't work where the private sector has capabilities to deliver services
4) Make the 'dole' tougher to live off. CERB is killing a lot of small businesses, why is it impossible for me to find unskilled labour at a 45% premium over min wage + full benefit package when the unemployment rate is over 8%?

 

[Wingboy]

Annoying but smart recruiting by McD's. You normally don't want the people searching for jobs, the better ones are more often already employed.

It was cash. Right then on Fri. Buddy said they were all at the bar that afternoon.

 

[nobbie48]

close to 50% of my income in tax not income tax. I apologize it's a generalization. Also tax levels are based on your income, so it has nothing to do with what I am doing. I am an employee not a business owner. What it was meant to represent is that even if you make good money, you rarely get to keep it all..

I'm playing a fool's game.

Let's say you want to buy a new car, $40,000 out the door plus tax. You have to earn an extra $5,200 to get the car to cover HST. If you didn't have to pay HST, probably on 60% of your spending, you could work for less.

But wait. There's more. If the same went for the dealership you wouldn't have to pay $40,000 for the car and even work for less and still have the same buying power.

Then going back through the multiple layers of suppliers right to the miner digging the iron ore out of the ground one wonders about the real cost of things.

We need government services and taxes are a necessary evil so like I said, a fool's game.

BTW all of the above usually need insurance.

I do wonder about the cost of having a log cabin built versus living next to someone with a decent woodlot, paying him for the logs you cut down and hewed into the same cabin.

 

[nobbie48]

You are not wrong, but we need cheap labor for our farms. Without the migrant workers Farmers would have too pay a lot more in wages to get crops light the fields. Prices would rise even further than they are.

Annoying but smart recruiting by McD's. You normally don't want the people searching for jobs, the better ones are more often already employed.

The corollary being it's easier to get a new job when you've already got one.