What constitutes a full stop?

[GSPLover]

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WHAT!!!? Its not "approach stop sign without braking, look for on coming traffic and continue right thru the stop sign without even slowing down if the way appears to be clear"!?
From about 80% of the drivers I see daily I would have thought that this was a "full stop"

 

[GiddyupDesi]

If I come to a complete stop but don't drop my leg, is it still a complete stop at a stop sign?

not if you're doin' an M2 exit exam. so, no!

Hey, I had this question in my mind too. Do you come to a full stop and put your foot down and change to first gear? I've found myself slowing to a crawl in second gear and then taking off.

I do this for both STOP and STOP-ALL WAY signs. I figure that if they really mean it then they would say STOP-ALL-WAY-SERIOUSLY.

'tis rolling through a stop sign and a moving violation!

A stop sign means stop not yield or stop if you want to. Foot down and brake on for 3 seconds. Lets get back to basics people.g

do dat a few times in a short time (eg. thru resid n'hood no passing lanes) with cars behind you and you WILL be HONKED at!!!!!!

 

[GiddyupDesi]

WHAT!!!? Its not "approach stop sign without braking, look for on coming traffic and continue right thru the stop sign without even slowing down if the way appears to be clear"!?
From about 80% of the drivers I see daily I would have thought that this was a "full stop"

all the time .. when i'm moving down a main thorughfare and see cars approaching from side streets to make RIGHT turns to join traffic ...they all obviously have STOP signs ...
I think 80% is correct as the drivers that look left then merge without stopping.

BUt when they need to make a left turn or go straight I think the number is more like 50% .. only cuz of traffic.

 

[Urban_Lounger]

For the M2 exit test, its stop, foot down, look left and right showing heading movement, then proceed.

In real life, its gear down, lightly tap brakes if needed, look both ways, then go.

In real life with police around, stop with foot down, wait for at least 1 sec, then proceed when it is safe to do so.

 

[Persian-Rice]

It makes sense if it is required to put a foot down. I can balance my bike for a full stop no problems and I do it if it is a stop sign, but I do notice I tend confuse the others at the intersection if I don't put a foot down signifying a stop. Dumb Torontonian cagers...

 

[GSPLover]

all the time .. when i'm moving down a main thorughfare and see cars approaching from side streets to make RIGHT turns to join traffic ...they all obviously have STOP signs ...
I think 80% is correct as the drivers that look left then merge without stopping.

BUt when they need to make a left turn or go straight I think the number is more like 50% .. only cuz of traffic.

Sorry, I should have specified I was talking about people turning right.

 

[psycho44]

the cop that pulled me over a couple of years back said that i had to put boh feet down, i ended up fighting the ticket and getting it tossed.

man I can't even get 1 whole foot down let alone both feet down. Most time I tiptoe to balance the bike unless it's a long stop than I'll shift my weight forward to get the balls of my feet down.

Is tiptoeing a violation?

 

[alnazer]

the cop that pulled me over a couple of years back said that i had to put boh feet down, i ended up fighting the ticket and getting it tossed.

I am not surprised at all you won this one. The cop is at fault as the correct way to do it is to keep your right foot on the brake, so having both feet on the ground is wrong.

 

[Roasted]

For the M2 exit test, its stop, foot down, look left and right showing heading movement, then proceed.

In real life, its gear down, lightly tap brakes if needed, look both ways, then go.

In real life with police around, stop with foot down, wait for at least 1 sec, then proceed when it is safe to do so.

I agree with all this. I mean come on, do you honestly stop for a full two seconds when driving or riding normally? The people behind you would LYNCH you from the nearest tree.

 

[amp3d]

Hmm, not sure about the 2-3 second pause I keep hearing about.

I was under then impression a full stop consists of your tires fully stopped, and USUALLY a foot down.

Some people are better at slow riding than others though, so you might be able to keep your feet on the pegs, however if an officer sees a foot go down he might be more lenient, so it's probably a good idea.

I have a bad habit of rolling them too, especially turning right on reds.
I guess it's all up to the discretion of the officer that sees you. If no officer is present, then don't worry about it cause it never happened

 

[TBSS_guy]

the cop that pulled me over a couple of years back said that i had to put boh feet down, i ended up fighting the ticket and getting it tossed.

It drives me nuts when you hear of unqualified people giving advice, especially when they're in a position of authority. There is nowhere in HTA that it says you need to put BOTH feet down.

I am not surprised at all you won this one. The cop is at fault as the correct way to do it is to keep your right foot on the brake, so having both feet on the ground is wrong.

+1 - ...but I wonder if most JP's know this... My guess is he got off lucky, even if what he did was legal.

I agree with all this. I mean come on, do you honestly stop for a full two seconds when driving or riding normally? The people behind you would LYNCH you from the nearest tree.

I've started doing this actually, you have to keep a close eye on your mirrors for sure ...but no honking yet... Since being 203'd I've made a concerted effort to be ultra-legal, I now understand completely just how easy it is for an officer having a bad day to turn a minor offence into a 203 infraction... Don't want to give them ANY ammunition...

...Well, except for following the speed limit on the 400 series, it's just WAY too dangerous to do 100 on those roads... As much as I don't need another completely undeserved suspension and impound, being alive is more important.


I have a question for group rides though... Assuming small group and everyone stops completely, has clear view of intersection, etc. Does each rider have to stop at the stop line or is stopping behind the line with clear view enough?

I don't think there's a mention of how close to the line you need to be in HTA is there?

 

[urameatball]

usually I drop and go without dropping my foot.
yesterday, I stopped and had to bring my foot down. I'm glad I did cuz there was a cop car waiting around the corner

 

[tooCanad]

This is an old thread. However, there was no authoritative answer. So I thought I'd wake it up.

I used to have a bike with a high centre of gravity. Slowing to a stop generally meant at least one foot down. I now ride one with a really low centre of gravity. A complete stop does not mean putting a foot down for balance.

I am also a little lazy, and would rather not put my foot down.

Any thoughts on legality?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

If you stop, but don't put a foot down, you'd have a hard time arguing that you were applying all due attention to checking when it was safe to proceed. Put the foot down.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

This is an old thread. However, there was no authoritative answer. So I thought I'd wake it up.

I used to have a bike with a high centre of gravity. Slowing to a stop generally meant at least one foot down. I now ride one with a really low centre of gravity. A complete stop does not mean putting a foot down for balance.

I am also a little lazy, and would rather not put my foot down.

Any thoughts on legality?

not putting your foot down can garner you a ticket. I know one person that fought it by showing the court he could stop and stay balanced on a unicycle and therefore if he could stop on one wheel he could stop on two. fact of the matter is he had to go to court and waste time.

 

[TorontoBoy]

not putting your foot down can garner you a ticket. I know one person that fought it by showing the court he could stop and stay balanced on a unicycle and therefore if he could stop on one wheel he could stop on two. fact of the matter is he had to go to court and waste time.

LOL I'd argue that a unicycle is a mere 15 lbs, direct drive forward and reverse, has a lower centre of gravity than a motorcycle and therefore not applicable.

Putting your foot down is a physical sign that you have fully stopped. It'd be hard for the cop to argue you did not stop if you put your foot down.

Scarborough is so bad for rolling stops. I almost got t-boned by a cop a mere 50 metres from my house. Watch those cops, as they can drive like idiots.

 

[rjm4u]

where is this 2 - 3 second rule written?...you only have to come to a complete and full stop...how long you want to stop for is up to you...if you make a complete stop and you have the right of way or the way is safe to proceed... you go!...if you stopped it doesnt mean you need to put a foot down...i have fought a ticket successfully on this....you have stick to your guns...if you made a complete stop that is the main issue...the only other way you can be guilty of an offence is if you proceed before your turn or when it is unsafe

 

[bitzz]

The Ontario HTA's definition of stop is:
“stop” or “stopping”, when prohibited, means the halting of a vehicle, even momentarily, whether occupied or not, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a police officer or of a traffic control sign or signal; (“arrêt”)

Nothing about one foot, two foot... or ANY foot.
"STOP" means the "HALTING" of the vehicle.
Just so you all know; police are trained to look at your wheels at a stop. If the wheel stops, the vehicle has halted.

 

[johnp]

.......if you stopped it doesnt mean you need to put a foot down...i have fought a ticket successfully on this....you have stick to your guns...i....

but if you don't put your foot down, what's your evidence that you've stopped? what argument did you use?

 

[Griffin]

QUOTE=rjm4u;1424543].......if you stopped it doesnt mean you need to put a foot down...i have fought a ticket successfully on this....you have stick to your guns...i....

but if you don't put your foot down, what's your evidence that you've stopped? what argument did you use?[/QUOTE]

You don't need evidence. The cop needs evidence of a violation. What evidence are they providing? That your foot wasn't down? That is easily countered with any number of proofs that a motorcyclist doesn't need to put a foot down to stop their vehicle.

I usually put a foot down, but not always. But I always come to a complete stop. If a cop wants to give me a ticket because I didn'tput a foot down, so be it. Its only one of a million things they can give me a ticket for where they're gonna be proven wrong in court.

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