Track tires

[Shaman]

I have a specific spring setup in my clutch on the 1000 to the way I prefer it. Basically, I never feel the tire drag (without rear brake) but it will slow the bike down if I back off the throttle. I can share it if you're interested, although the stock slipper setup isn't that much different.

 

[gsxr guy]

Us old guys started racing on bias ply street tires, in production classes. I was tire testing meztler z6 roadtec touring tires, back in 2010 at tmp turning 1:24s. Turning 2:18 at bogie on m5 sportec. Mr. Sharrard turned a 2:14 on racetec, on a stock s1000rr with stock tires. So until your moving street tires do work. And hopefully learn how to control 2 wheel slides at lower speeds, and how to corner exit crossed up. I find it more difficult to back it in with a race tire.

 

[YellowDuck]

There is rear tire drag, and then there's uncontrollable rear tire drag. I'm old enough to have sampled both and I know which I prefer.

What's uncontrollable rear tire drag? My bike came with a rear tire drag controller on the left handlebar.

Okay, that was a smartass comment. But seriously, I am a lower-end intermediate rider who has done two seasons now on street compounds (superbike pros, which provide no more grip that Q2s or DRCs), with no warmers on a big displacement V-twin with (until recently) no slipper clutch. My experience? Something like a Q2 is going to be plenty of tire for guy like me (and probably the OP). Both times I have gone down on the track it had nothing at all to do with the rubber I was running. The rest of the time, the tires were always better than I was. I never dragged the rear if I stayed off the rear brake, and if it had been problem I would have just delayed my downshifts. It's not rocket science.

I am still at 1:28 - 1:30 at TMP. That's maybe 10 to 12 seconds off what would be a respectable race pace on my class of bike, and I am 100% sure that the Q2s will be just dandy at that pace.

My experience, my opinion, take it or leave it.

 

[cors]

If it's wet, use rain tires or don't ride. There is no comparison between a FRESH set of rain tires and any normal DOT tire.

I hate riding on track in the rain, and have made a decision next year to only have one set of rims. If it's raining, I'm not riding. I'm not in this for any sort of championship, and if it's raining, I am not having any fun whatsoever anyhow.

Due to cost associated with maintaining FRESH set of rain tires and maybe not even use them, I've decided to forget about the idea of having spare wheels with rain tires. I'll now have to sell the rear spare rim I have. Instead, my efforts will be directed as follows below...

Pretty sure the slipper from an 05 and newer 1000 will fit in your 03. You have to grind a little here and there inside the cover, but the rest is a direct bolt on. I bet you can find a complete slipper from an 05/06 for around 100$. If you get the clutch cover off it youll even be able to adjust it!

heres a thread: http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75345

I have NRC covers, and based on some reading I probably won't even need to grind inside the cover. Consequently, I found a used slipper clutch complete assembly from an 05 1000 (about 100 bucks, but without the plates). I'm happy! Directing the spare wheels fund towards a slipper clutch---priceless! Being on slicks, that will also force me not to ride in the rain---double safety overall!

I have a specific spring setup in my clutch on the 1000 to the way I prefer it. Basically, I never feel the tire drag (without rear brake) but it will slow the bike down if I back off the throttle. I can share it if you're interested, although the stock slipper setup isn't that much different.

The clutch assembly I'm getting comes with stock springs. I'm definitely interested in learning your setup. Springs are like 5 bucks each (need 6 of them), so no biggie.. Are those springs you use stronger/tighter(not sure what the correct adverb is)?

 

[dricked]

You don't need FRESH rain tires, you just don't want hard garbage tires. Mine have an old date on them but worked well and got me around the track at a decent pace. I actually didn't notice a difference between them and new ones I rode on the next weekend. Also if you decide to race the extra wheels really help with tire management, I'd hold onto that rear.

 

[caboose56]

Blaming the equipment for a crash. That's my favourite!

 

[carboncat]

corsara buddy, your not racing just doing trackdays, why even risk the crash in the rain?
the cost of crashing is way more then being out 150 bucks for a track day that got rained out.
spend the money on better things that are needed. like a case of oil / case of filters ect ect

 

[Mr.Azim]

Or hang on to that spare rim.... and the day you look like you're about to get rained out, buy a set of rain tires. Then they're fresh and you'll actually get to use them (unless it clears up and totally dries after lunch like it did for me).

Blaming the equipment for a crash. That's my favourite!

You mean... it was my fault?!

 

[carboncat]

Or hang on to that spare rim.... and the day you look like you're about to get rained out, buy a set of rain tires. Then they're fresh and you'll actually get to use them (unless it clears up and totally dries after lunch like it did for me).



You mean... it was my fault?!

no! always the tires.! ! always!

 

[meme]

corsara buddy, your not racing just doing trackdays, why even risk the crash in the rain?
the cost of crashing is way more then being out 150 bucks for a track day that got rained out.
spend the money on better things that are needed. like a case of oil / case of filters ect ect

Crashing in the rain has always been cheaper for me than crashing in the dry.

Open track, lotsa fun when it starts to rain.
I'm getting a new set this year, if anyone want the old ones when I swap they are yours. They are old, but still malleable.

 

[Jayv]

Open track, lotsa fun when it starts to rain.
I'm getting a new set this year, if anyone want the old ones when I swap they are yours. They are old, but still malleable.

Dibs

 

[Shaman]

The clutch assembly I'm getting comes with stock springs. I'm definitely interested in learning your setup. Springs are like 5 bucks each (need 6 of them), so no biggie.. Are those springs you use stronger/tighter(not sure what the correct adverb is)?

I thought about it and I think we used stock springs when I refreshed it. But here are the plates that I used:

Listed from outer most plate to the inside: (F-fiber plate, S-steel plate)

• 21441-36F20 - F
  
• 21451-41G00 - S (2.3 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G00 - S (2.3 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G00 - S (2.3 mm Thickness)
  
• 21442-41G00 - F

This was on Suzuki's recommendation. All the plates are Suzuki OEM. The springs were slightly stronger IIRC but Suzuki changed that spec.

 

[dricked]

There's a certain stack height (overall height of the clutch plates, steel and fiber)your looking for (49mm)and you adjust the locking nuts on the pins (I believe 2 turns out is a decent starting point, pins further in crates more slip) to adjust the amount of slippage. Changing the springs doesn't change the amount of slip.

There's tons of complete clutches on eBay for under $100.

 

[cors]

You don't need FRESH rain tires, you just don't want hard garbage tires. Mine have an old date on them but worked well and got me around the track at a decent pace. I actually didn't notice a difference between them and new ones I rode on the next weekend. Also if you decide to race the extra wheels really help with tire management, I'd hold onto that rear.

Yeah, you're right. I'll keep the rear for when I decide I want to get into racing.

corsara buddy, your not racing just doing trackdays, why even risk the crash in the rain?
the cost of crashing is way more then being out 150 bucks for a track day that got rained out.
spend the money on better things that are needed. like a case of oil / case of filters ect ect

TJ, that's the conclusion I came to as well

I thought about it and I think we used stock springs when I refreshed it. But here are the plates that I used:

Listed from outer most plate to the inside: (F-fiber plate, S-steel plate)

• 21441-36F20 - F
  
• 21451-41G00 - S (2.3 mm Thickness)
  
• 21441-36F00 - F
  
• 21451-41G00 - S (2.3 mm Thickness)
• 21441-36F00 - F
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
• 21441-36F00 - F
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
• 21441-36F00 - F
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
• 21441-36F00 - F
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
• 21441-36F00 - F
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
• 21441-36F00 - F
• 21451-41G20 - S (2.6 mm Thickness)
• 21441-36F00 - F
• 21451-41G00 - S (2.3 mm Thickness)
  
• 21442-41G00 - F

This was on Suzuki's recommendation. All the plates are Suzuki OEM. The springs were slightly stronger IIRC but Suzuki changed that spec.

This is great as the only things left for me to buy are exactly the steel plates, then I'm good to go. Initially I was planning to follow the fiche and order the plates, they are all the same part number for all 9 of them. Can you tell me the perceivable difference between your setup and if I go stock specs? Sorry, just trying to make my mind.

EDIT: the stock according to fiche, all 9 plates are these:

21451-41G00 - S (2.3 mm Thickness)

There's a certain stack height (overall height of the clutch plates, steel and fiber)your looking for (49mm)and you adjust the locking nuts on the pins (I believe 2 turns out is a decent starting point, pins further in crates more slip) to adjust the amount of slippage. Changing the springs doesn't change the amount of slip.

There's tons of complete clutches on eBay for under $100.

Ordered one for $80 (before shipping) last night, comes with everything with the exception of the fiber and steel plates. Apparently I can reuse the fibers from my bike, but I have to buy the steels.

 

[dricked]

Then just measure your fibers and order the proper amount of steels in the proper thicknesses to get 49mm tall.

 

[VFR.CBR]

Mr. Sharrard turned a 2:14 on racetec, on a stock s1000rr with stock tires. So until your moving street tires do work.

This hardly helps answer the OP's question. How far did John go on the stock tires? 2,3 laps? He was leaving monster black stripes at every corner. "Yeah, those stock tires didn't have much side grip"
Mind you, it was plenty of fun watching him.

 

[cors]

Then just measure your fibers and order the proper amount of steels in the proper thicknesses to get 49mm tall.

Shaman and Dricked, major confusion here! I wanna get the parts now, will open her up and put it in in the Spring, I want to have the parts ready. So I can't measure. See the fiche below. Apparently for the one plate they give the option of #9, #10, or #11. How am I supposed to know what to order? I'm very tempted to go with Shaman's configuration of plates only because it's clear exactly what I have to order, but was hoping he'll tell me what's the difference in feel. Is it slipping less or what? I'm obviously trying to convert from non-slipper to slipper, will be disappointed if it's almost not slipping.. please help!

And to the OP---really sorry for hijacking this thread. Somehow feels like there isn't much more to be said about tires anyway.

 

[dricked]

Those are the different steel plates you can order to adjust your stack height (9-10-11) the other is the last fiber that's different from the rest (larger ID and is a dark brown colour). The only way to do this properly is measure your fibers and figure out the steels that will get you to 49mm. If shamens plate reccomendations and your fibers equal 49mm +\- .2mm than go ahead. The amount of turns on the adjuster pins dictate the amount of slip. Unless your ordering new fibers and know the heights of the new plates you can't just order whatever and throw them in there.

 

[Shaman]

I think the main reason that the plates are 2.6mm for most of them has to do more with heat dissipation and overall friction and POSSIBLY durability than with slip action, but the way mine is set up, I never have to think about the rear steering itself by itself. I'll see if I have more notes on the pin setup. Anyway, this was Suzuki's recommendation for competition and not something I trial-and-errored myself. Clint McBain's notes on the bike build led me to getting the recommendation.

BTW, to the best of my knowledge, the clutch on my 05 GSX-R (Joey McRae's old AM bike) was stock and it was good too, just not quite as refined as the feel of my 08. There's also a major difference between them that could be involved: the 05 is cable and the 08 is hydraulic.. the feel of these two clutch systems is very different to operate. I only brought it up because the clutch on the 08 after reworking it (it was grabby) is sublime.

Which brings up another point, the stock 05/6 clutch get pretty grabby; shudder on takeoff when they get worn a bit and the recommendations above were also made for that clutch and could be overall why Suzuki made the part numbers and spec available. I just wanted to relate what I found out, since you might as well have it set up right if you are going into the clutch basket.

 

[dricked]

I think the main reason that the plates are 2.6mm for most of them has to do more with heat dissipation and overall friction and POSSIBLY durability than with slip action, but the way mine is set up, I never have to think about the rear steering itself by itself. I'll see if I have more notes on the pin setup. Anyway, this was Suzuki's recommendation for competition and not something I trial-and-errored myself. Clint McBain's notes on the bike build led me to getting the recommendation.

BTW, to the best of my knowledge, the clutch on my 05 GSX-R (Joey McRae's old AM bike) was stock and it was good too, just not quite as refined as the feel of my 08. There's also a major difference between them that could be involved: the 05 is cable and the 08 is hydraulic.. the feel of these two clutch systems is very different to operate. I only brought it up because the clutch on the 08 after reworking it (it was grabby) is sublime.

Which brings up another point, the stock 05/6 clutch get pretty grabby; shudder on takeoff when they get worn a bit and the recommendations above were also made for that clutch and could be overall why Suzuki made the part numbers and spec available. I just wanted to relate what I found out, since you might as well have it set up right if you are going into the clutch basket.

So then what was your stack height?