To be masked or not to be masked | Page 8 | GTAMotorcycle.com

To be masked or not to be masked

ifiddles said:
...because kids under 12 are like petrie dishes...they can and do bring viruses home which can affect parents, grandparents etc...the under 12 crowd is the least vaccinated group in Ontario (I can't remember the percentage, but it's low)...many families use schools as child care (and I understand people have to work) and pre-covid, would often send kids to school sick...until now, they've had to complete a daily self screening online and submit confirmation of a pass before going to school, but as of the 21st, that too is being discontinued (at least with it in place, we had some degree of assurance that kids weren't sick)...they've also lifted restrictions on isolating for siblings, when returning from outside Canada etc. as of the 21st...windows in most schools don't open much (mine opens 2-3" on a tilt outwards from the bottom)...class sizes aren't any smaller than pre-covid...

If you do some research, Dr. Juni (who I quoted in an earlier post and attached a link) says it's too soon...even Sick Kids Hospital (who DF has said before he listens to) agrees it's too soon...

Families are going to be travelling next week, and I'm sure numbers will rise (how much I don't know) after we return...and in fact, I've heard numbers ARE going up in many places that have already done away with them...

Can we leave them on forever?...no...

Is now the right time to get rid of them?...I honestly don't know...
Click to expand...
Maybe the govt is trying to get everyone infected... Omicron is the mildest version of the virus so far, and studies have now shown natural immunity is better then and last longer then the vaccines (natural immunity +vaccine is better again). The FDA Pfizer documents are slowly coming out (next release by Apr 1st, then the last release by May 1st) and from what it shows so far, many may refuse to take boosters.

Or it could just be the election cycle and the politicians trying to keep their jobs 🤔
 
DownUnder said:
Maybe the govt is trying to get everyone infected... Omicron is the mildest version of the virus so far, and studies have now shown natural immunity is better then and last longer then the vaccines (natural immunity +vaccine is better again). The FDA Pfizer documents are slowly coming out (next release by Apr 1st, then the last release by May 1st) and from what it shows so far, many may refuse to take boosters.

Or it could just be the election cycle and the politicians trying to keep their jobs 🤔
Click to expand...
I think you hit the nail on the head right there!

NDP and Liberals are most likely going to start (if not already) that masks are coming off too early.

I'd bet that DF will use the 'We ended the mask mandates! the opposition wants to oppress you again with masks! They are the enemy! I will keep you safe! I will give you free money! I will do XYZ!'

EDIT: Yup...Opposition is urging caution and scientific approach (to which I agree) over the magically reached date / timeline by DF....obviously there are opposing views.

globalnews.ca

Opposition leaders urge caution with Ontario mask mandate possibly easing within weeks | Globalnews.ca

"We certainly shouldn't let it rip the way that it feels to me like Doug Ford really wants to do," Ontario Liberal Leader Steven Del Duca said.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
 
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ifiddles said:
...because kids under 12 are like petrie dishes...they can and do bring viruses home which can affect parents, grandparents etc...the under 12 crowd is the least vaccinated group in Ontario (I can't remember the percentage, but it's low)...many families use schools as child care (and I understand people have to work) and pre-covid, would often send kids to school sick...until now, they've had to complete a daily self screening online and submit confirmation of a pass before going to school, but as of the 21st, that too is being discontinued (at least with it in place, we had some degree of assurance that kids weren't sick)...they've also lifted restrictions on isolating for siblings, when returning from outside Canada etc. as of the 21st...windows in most schools don't open much (mine opens 2-3" on a tilt outwards from the bottom)...class sizes aren't any smaller than pre-covid...

If you do some research, Dr. Juni (who I quoted in an earlier post and attached a link) says it's too soon...even Sick Kids Hospital (who DF has said before he listens to) agrees it's too soon...

Families are going to be travelling next week, and I'm sure numbers will rise (how much I don't know) after we return...and in fact, I've heard numbers ARE going up in many places that have already done away with them...

Can we leave them on forever?...no...

Is now the right time to get rid of them?...I honestly don't know...
Click to expand...

I just glanced at a magazine article and it started out "As restrictions are lifted and we get back to la-la land........."

The optimism is based on the writer's need to get their own economy rolling. Science does not support the statement but people want to hear good news so badly that they ignore common sense.

The west has had it so good for so long that we think it's the norm. We think that we won't suffer. The medical system will be there for us and there's a pill for every ailment.

What would you do if you were running for premier?

A ) Tell the truth and not get elected, leaving the province in the hands of a person that lied to get elected. The elected party would continue to lie, conceal the truth, letting treatable wounds to fester.

B ) Lie like everyone else and then pull the rug out from the voters when elected.

C ) Lie, get in and slowly back off, trying to get the system back on track.

B and C are only different with regards to the speed of the change

D ) Lie, get elected and just say "Let the people decide". Govern by trial balloons and size of protests. "The people have spoken"

The underlying problem is that we are conditioned from birth to accept lies. We are lie junkies. Everything we did, right or wrong, was wonderful to our parents. Never say no to a kid. It will destroy their self esteem. The world is their oyster. They deserve, deserve, deserve.

I'm not talking about beating the crap out of someone physically or verbally. I'm talking about both sides learning to give and take constructive criticism.
 
mimico_polak said:
I think you hit the nail on the head right there!

NDP and Liberals are most likely going to start (if not already) that masks are coming off too early.

I'd bet that DF will use the 'We ended the mask mandates! the opposition wants to oppress you again with masks! They are the enemy! I will keep you safe! I will give you free money! I will do XYZ!'

EDIT: Yup...Opposition is urging caution and scientific approach (to which I agree) over the magically reached date / timeline by DF....obviously there are opposing views.

globalnews.ca

Opposition leaders urge caution with Ontario mask mandate possibly easing within weeks | Globalnews.ca

"We certainly shouldn't let it rip the way that it feels to me like Doug Ford really wants to do," Ontario Liberal Leader Steven Del Duca said.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
Click to expand...
What if a party, during the election campaign, had to submit their budget for their four year term but had to call an election when the money was gone.

By-monthly elections or yearly?
 
nobbie48 said:
What if a party, during the election campaign, had to submit their budget for their four year term but had to call an election when the money was gone.

By-monthly elections or yearly?
Click to expand...
Well DF has pushed back the budget to closer to the election...don't give enough time to review it, and then the next party can nicely say 'we didn't know it was this bad, sorry folks...we have to cut back on all our promises.' - I expect DF to say that about DFs budget.
 
I’ll stop masking as soon as possible, but I don’t work in a risk setting or a school.
My wife ( hospital work) figures she will be masked by mandate until she retires .

I want my buck a beer.


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
 
I understand each teacher have their concerns regarding lifting the mask mandate.
What medical agency or doctors does the Teachers Union rely on to substantiate there concerns about the masking in the school?
 
DownUnder said:
Maybe the govt is trying to get everyone infected... Omicron is the mildest version of the virus so far, and studies have now shown natural immunity is better then and last longer then the vaccines (natural immunity +vaccine is better again). The FDA Pfizer documents are slowly coming out (next release by Apr 1st, then the last release by May 1st) and from what it shows so far, many may refuse to take boosters.

Or it could just be the election cycle and the politicians trying to keep their jobs 🤔
Click to expand...
Given that the spikes in cases generally follow a couple of weeks on the heels of various breaks, the timing is more than a little suspect.
 
nobbie48 said:
The underlying problem is that we are conditioned from birth to accept lies. We are lie junkies. Everything we did, right or wrong, was wonderful to our parents. Never say no to a kid. It will destroy their self esteem. The world is their oyster. They deserve, deserve, deserve.
Click to expand...

If we're going down this path....

The other path, where you accept absolute truths, is not exactly brighter. I go down this path: it's ******* brutal lol

From that perspective, I can see why people would prefer comfortable lies over brutal truths.
 
油井緋色 said:
If we're going down this path....

The other path, where you accept absolute truths, is not exactly brighter. I go down this path: it's ******* brutal lol

From that perspective, I can see why people would prefer comfortable lies over brutal truths.
Click to expand...
The other path is we're all going to die. With the exception of elephants, few in the animal kingdom care about their offspring once they'e weaned. Mama deer says "Sorry the lion got you son but better you than me."

The absolute truth is we are going to die. The challenge is to pack in as much enjoyment as we can before it happens. Part of the challenge is to choose quantity or quality, a lot of good days or fewer but really fantastic days living at the edge of a cliff. Again, a lot is how we are cultured.

Tradition: Being guilt tripped by dead people.
 
nobbie48 said:
The other path is we're all going to die. With the exception of elephants, few in the animal kingdom care about their offspring once they'e weaned. Mama deer says "Sorry the lion got you son but better you than me."

The absolute truth is we are going to die. The challenge is to pack in as much enjoyment as we can before it happens. Part of the challenge is to choose quantity or quality, a lot of good days or fewer but really fantastic days living at the edge of a cliff. Again, a lot is how we are cultured.

Tradition: Being guilt tripped by dead people.
Click to expand...

Is it to pack in enjoyment? Or is it to reduce the total net suffering that is the default of living? I guess this is quantity vs quality.

I'm on the "reduce as much suffering as possible" mindset, but to "act rationally, ignore your emotions" has been more painful than anything externally influenced. I'm asking this stuff not so much to debate, but as to explore.

EDIT: I also find people who focus mostly on enjoyment suffer equally as much (deferred suffering, the obese person that deals w/ the consequences later and may offset the suffering to their family via decades of mistreating their body, is a common example that comes to mind.)

Another common scenario: Being unable to do one's job as a parent, to discipline their child because a parent's discipline is far less harsh than discipline dealt without love in the real world, transfers to the child suffering in the future.
 
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Science
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DownUnder said:
Maybe the govt is trying to get everyone infected... Omicron is the mildest version of the virus so far, and studies have now shown natural immunity is better then and last longer then the vaccines (natural immunity +vaccine is better again). The FDA Pfizer documents are slowly coming out (next release by Apr 1st, then the last release by May 1st) and from what it shows so far, many may refuse to take boosters.

Or it could just be the election cycle and the politicians trying to keep their jobs 🤔
Click to expand...

I haven’t seen any studies that say natural immunity is better than vaccines.
 
jc100 said:
I haven’t seen any studies that say natural immunity is better than vaccines.
Click to expand...
I would think quite the opposite, in fact, because there are extremely low chances of having a reaction to a vaccine, while the odds of secondary effects of having the actual infection are quite high.
 
justride said:
I understand each teacher have their concerns regarding lifting the mask mandate.
What medical agency or doctors does the Teachers Union rely on to substantiate there concerns about the masking in the school?
Click to expand...

Doctors from Sick Kids (one of the top childrens hospitals in the world). Infectious disease experts across the country. Etc

Not truckers. Not politicians.
 
jc100 said:
Doctors from Sick Kids (one of the top childrens hospitals in the world). Infectious disease experts across the country. Etc

Not truckers. Not politicians.
Click to expand...
I think Sick Kids is widely recognized as the #1 children's hospital in the world these days.

justride said:
I understand each teacher have their concerns regarding lifting the mask mandate.
What medical agency or doctors does the Teachers Union rely on to substantiate there concerns about the masking in the school?
Click to expand...
They can go wherever they like to substantiate their opinions and concerns -- at the end of the day a call made to lift masking is first done provincially. Municipal level public health orders can keep mask mandates in place.

The point teachers might be missing is that protection from COVID is moving from a gov't responsibility to personal responsibility - just like the flu, mumps, measles, smallpox, TB, HIV etc. By now we all know how to protect ourselves using vaccines, masks, good hand hygiene, and social distancing.

Soon the decision to mask will be a personal responsibility, not a public one.
 
jc100 said:
Doctors from Sick Kids (one of the top childrens hospitals in the world). Infectious disease experts across the country. Etc

Not truckers. Not politicians.
Click to expand...
Reference? The way you stated it, it sounds more likely that you've stated your opinion as fact.
 
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