starboy869
Well-known member
should've done your homework. broke kids buying more than can afford.
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Tips for knocking down price? Buying a new bike.
- Thread starter JCHC91
- Start date
That's great to hear! I'm glad this all worked out in the end for you!
TF3N
Well-known member
I'm not going to get into a pissing match here, but in this case you're wrong. The chances of it even getting to court are slim to none, as the costs to the dealer would severely outweigh the buyers deposit. Not only that, but it's the Dealer that would end up fighting the "uphill battle" as they would have to prove without a doubt, that they incurred a financial loss because of this broken agreement, and they'd only be entitled to that amount - nothing more. Seeing that the OP changed his mind, on an in-stock unit, within a couple of days - that would be near impossible to do.
It would be another thing if OP had a specific bike ordered and/or had accessories, customization installed. In this case, however, not so much.
Anyways, I'm done here. I'm not going to engage further and I'm not one to usually respond on these petty things, I just found your "matter of fact" tone to be condescending and felt compelled to respond.
Moving on.
Dresden
Well-known member
I guess it's easy to get caught up in the BS sometimes;
Objectively looking back at your previous post regarding OMVIC - you might be right in that if the GM said they can cancel, they should be giving him back his money and not an in-store credit. The only area they can possibly ding him is in advertising charges (hard to prove), admin costs (stretched) and selling the bike at a reduced price to someone else. (very stretched)
if the dealer agrees to cancel a vehicle purchase agreement, they are entitled to claim "liquidated damages" and retain a part – or all – of your deposit.
Liquidated damages arise from the expenses the dealer might have already incurred in when selling the vehicle to you: e.g.
- Advertising
- Freight and administrative costs
- Cost for the loss of profit resulting from this cancellation
I guess if OP doesn't want to accept the store credit, he can pursue a case with OMVIC.
I've got no experience there, but I can't imagine it's going to take just one email or call to get it to happen.
:sign3:
Not so at all. You are confusing Criminal law with CIVIL law. In a criminal case the crown has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Ia a civil case the parties need only to prove that the evidence supports a preponderance of evidence. As stated below:
In a civil case, the plaintiff has the burden of proving the facts and claims asserted in the complaint. If the respondent, or defendant, files a counterclaim, the respondent will have the burden of proving that claim. When a party has the Burden of Proof, the party must present, through testimony and exhibits, enough evidence to support the claim. The amount of evidence required varies from claim to claim. For most civil claims, there are two different evidentiary standards: preponderance of the evidence, and clear and convincing evidence. A third standard, proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, is used in criminal cases and very few civil cases.
The quantum of evidence that constitutes a preponderance cannot be reduced to a simple formula. A preponderance of evidence has been described as just enough evidence to make it more likely than not that the fact the claimant seeks to prove is true. It is difficult to translate this definition and apply it to evidence in a case, but the definition serves as a helpful guide to judges and juries in determining whether a claimant has carried his or her burden of proof.
The majority of civil claims are subjected to a preponderance of evidence standard. If a court or legislature seeks to make a civil claim more difficult to prove, it may raise the evidentiary standard to one of clear and convincing evidence.
So folks all Kuhuna would have to do is show up with advertising invoices. Then they would no doubt show that the processing of the order was a cost to them and that they would be billed by the manufacturer for the order processing on their end. They would have no doubt filed a counterclaim, and sued for considerably more.
In the end the OP is "satisfied" with his in store credit, (although I would advise you to use it VERY quickly). Did the GM give you anything in writing?? Staff at dealerships change often he could be demoted or fired tomorrow and without something in writing your in store credit would go out the door with him...lol
In a civil case, the plaintiff has the burden of proving the facts and claims asserted in the complaint. If the respondent, or defendant, files a counterclaim, the respondent will have the burden of proving that claim. When a party has the Burden of Proof, the party must present, through testimony and exhibits, enough evidence to support the claim. The amount of evidence required varies from claim to claim. For most civil claims, there are two different evidentiary standards: preponderance of the evidence, and clear and convincing evidence. A third standard, proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, is used in criminal cases and very few civil cases.
The quantum of evidence that constitutes a preponderance cannot be reduced to a simple formula. A preponderance of evidence has been described as just enough evidence to make it more likely than not that the fact the claimant seeks to prove is true. It is difficult to translate this definition and apply it to evidence in a case, but the definition serves as a helpful guide to judges and juries in determining whether a claimant has carried his or her burden of proof.
The majority of civil claims are subjected to a preponderance of evidence standard. If a court or legislature seeks to make a civil claim more difficult to prove, it may raise the evidentiary standard to one of clear and convincing evidence.
So folks all Kuhuna would have to do is show up with advertising invoices. Then they would no doubt show that the processing of the order was a cost to them and that they would be billed by the manufacturer for the order processing on their end. They would have no doubt filed a counterclaim, and sued for considerably more.
In the end the OP is "satisfied" with his in store credit, (although I would advise you to use it VERY quickly). Did the GM give you anything in writing?? Staff at dealerships change often he could be demoted or fired tomorrow and without something in writing your in store credit would go out the door with him...lol
I'll give you that one, I bought an awesome rf1100 for 200 bucks
However, selling door crashers and properly running a business are two very different things
Dresden
Well-known member
And why not? If someone can show me why I am wrong, I remain open to changing my frame of thought - he did.
You on the other hand...
JCHC91
Well-known member
I enjoyed the constructive criticism that was involved in this thread, and I have ultimately learned not to go upon impulse thoughts in regards to this in the future.
There is always something better for a fraction of the price.
The GM was hinting at coming another time for the in store credit but next time he could play dumb and say no. So I decided to pick up some things that I needed for my bike and myself.
These back to back conversations about OMVIC are intriguing but it's all speculation on your end, and at this point I'm okay with what I got, even if I could have or couldn't have gotten more.
Needless to say, Kahuna did good on accommodating me as I have mentioned before but does not urge me for a second visit.
Ps. I am still unsure why Rosey Toes is unliked by some people
Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk
There is always something better for a fraction of the price.
The GM was hinting at coming another time for the in store credit but next time he could play dumb and say no. So I decided to pick up some things that I needed for my bike and myself.
These back to back conversations about OMVIC are intriguing but it's all speculation on your end, and at this point I'm okay with what I got, even if I could have or couldn't have gotten more.
Needless to say, Kahuna did good on accommodating me as I have mentioned before but does not urge me for a second visit.
Ps. I am still unsure why Rosey Toes is unliked by some people
Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk
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True, true, but if you (generally speaking) are going to bash on a particular shop every chance you get, then you should not support that shop despite of their awesome deals. From a moral perspective, of course. Or is everyone out to save/make a dollar?
For what it's worth, I have never been to Kahuna, I'm just backing them up based on the contents of this particular thread. Nothing else.
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what is wrong with snow city? never had an issue in several years dealing with them.
Same here. I bought tons of parts from the in last three years and never once did I have an issue.
TF3N
Well-known member
It's easy to argue something you have no experience with.
The cost of fighting in court over a $500 depo is not worth it. Period. Any dealer will tell you that.
Not only that - the record of the dispute stays on OMVIC's website, regardless of the outcome, for two years. That alone isn't worth it to any dealer that's financially stable.
This:
Buyers leave deposits and bail on us a few times a month, it's just part of the game. Sometimes I'd love to pursue them legally(the real "special" ones) but it's never made solid business sense in the past (max deposit we take is $3000).
OMVIC doesn't mess around with this stuff.
I'd love to hear a specific past example of yours, pertaining to automotive (post OMVIC), that shows otherwise
The cost of fighting in court over a $500 depo is not worth it. Period. Any dealer will tell you that.
Not only that - the record of the dispute stays on OMVIC's website, regardless of the outcome, for two years. That alone isn't worth it to any dealer that's financially stable.
This:
is complete BS. The dealer would have to prove that the advertising was specifically created for the unit the buyer bailed on. Otherwise, no dice. Also, the unit was already in stock. Even if it wasn't, they could only go after him for additional shipping costs(not freight and PDI, as the next buyer will incur those) - If the unit was so specific to the point that they'd have a hard time moving it, the dealer would've asked for a much larger deposit, warranting legal action, and we wouldn't be having this retarded argument.
Buyers leave deposits and bail on us a few times a month, it's just part of the game. Sometimes I'd love to pursue them legally(the real "special" ones) but it's never made solid business sense in the past (max deposit we take is $3000).
OMVIC doesn't mess around with this stuff.
I'd love to hear a specific past example of yours, pertaining to automotive (post OMVIC), that shows otherwise
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I love it when people say others have no idea what they are talking about. Particularly when they haven't read the whole story themselves.
First off my comments are in general, not just specific to this incident.
You admit you don't even know if the bike was in stock, but base some of your hypothesis, on it being in stock. Well the bike wasn't in stock, which is why I said the dealer would have costs associated with ordering the bike. It doesn't appear to be a "custom" bike of any sort.
You seem to be upset because the operation you work in have clients who leave deposits then bail "all the time." thus passes you off and you say you would love to go after them in court,. But tour arguing that the dealership is the one solely at fault for not returning the OP's deposit?? Even the OP, (good for him), admits he cancelled the contract only because he screwed up and made an I'll advised impulse buy.
In the end, I was merely pointing out tour reference to the dealer having to prove anything beyond a doubt. Is wrong in civil court and backed this is with facts, not just speculation
I never spoke of OMVIC, as I have no experience with that body I was referring to civil court. Which I do have experience in. But OMVIC being a quasi judicial body MUST adhere to the same rules of evidence. Yes I have been involved with other self regulating bodies and they all follow similar structures
The OP made a bad choice but is now satisfied with the outcome. I am glad for him.
First off my comments are in general, not just specific to this incident.
You admit you don't even know if the bike was in stock, but base some of your hypothesis, on it being in stock. Well the bike wasn't in stock, which is why I said the dealer would have costs associated with ordering the bike. It doesn't appear to be a "custom" bike of any sort.
You seem to be upset because the operation you work in have clients who leave deposits then bail "all the time." thus passes you off and you say you would love to go after them in court,. But tour arguing that the dealership is the one solely at fault for not returning the OP's deposit?? Even the OP, (good for him), admits he cancelled the contract only because he screwed up and made an I'll advised impulse buy.
In the end, I was merely pointing out tour reference to the dealer having to prove anything beyond a doubt. Is wrong in civil court and backed this is with facts, not just speculation
I never spoke of OMVIC, as I have no experience with that body I was referring to civil court. Which I do have experience in. But OMVIC being a quasi judicial body MUST adhere to the same rules of evidence. Yes I have been involved with other self regulating bodies and they all follow similar structures
The OP made a bad choice but is now satisfied with the outcome. I am glad for him.
It's easy to argue something you have no experience with.
The cost of fighting in court over a $500 depo is not worth it. Period. Any dealer will tell you that.
Not only that - the record of the dispute stays on OMVIC's website, regardless of the outcome, for two years. That alone isn't worth it to any dealer that's financially stable.
This: is complete BS. The dealer would have to prove that the advertising was specifically created for the unit the buyer bailed on. Otherwise, no dice. Also, the unit was already in stock. Even if it wasn't, they could only go after him for additional shipping costs(not freight and PDI, as the next buyer will incur those) - If the unit was so specific to the point that they'd have a hard time moving it, the dealer would've asked for a much larger deposit, warranting legal action, and we wouldn't be having this retarded argument.
Buyers leave deposits and bail on us a few times a month, it's just part of the game. Sometimes I'd love to pursue them legally(the real "special" ones) but it's never made solid business sense in the past (max deposit we take is $3000).
OMVIC doesn't mess around with this stuff.
I'd love to hear a specific past example of yours, pertaining to automotive (post OMVIC), that shows otherwise
:happy1:
My matter of principle is in buying Canadian and not from a website, in regards to bashing them and buying there, I do not purchase bikes or use their service department due to previous experiences, I have always had a normal experience buying stuff, mostly because I don't have to deal with anyone and I am self sufficient.
I believe if a store does not care about customer service, they should suffer the consequences of said service, the only way I have to make that happen is by telling as many people as I can.
2 out of many more situations:
1- They charged an ex of mine for the 1000 km service full price, and they failed to actually do the work they invoiced her for.
- I called and asked, is it part of the 1000 service to adjust x? they said yes, I said ok X is lose are you going to takew care of it for free? they said no, we will charge for labor. I hanged up the phone and did it myself. It was something that could potentially have harmed her.
2- My bike got totaled in 2010, someone hit me from behind while at a traffic light in downtown Toronto. The tow driver took my bike there. Long story short insurance could not settle with me until they provided a written estimate, it took them 3 weeks.
Edit:
Oh yea, I forgot about this one - I went there to buy a small boat, I must have waited for someone to come and take care of me for at least 40 min, many salesman, service people, manager walk right by me while I was standing there in front of the boat alone staring at it for all that time, they never even said hello, can I help you, are you ok, so I left to never come back. That place I will never step foot on as a matter of principle
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TF3N
Well-known member
/Argument. It's clear you're out of your element here.
You seem to know your way around the law, but if you haven't been on either side of an OMVIC dispute, you truly have no idea what you're talking about (Yes, even if it was ordered in for the buyer. Re-read my last post)
I'm speaking from experience, man. PM me if you're really interested in how these things play out, I'll be happy to enlighten you.
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