Things you wished a motorcycle course taught

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MacDoc said:
Make it like getting a pilot's license
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While the aviation community is safer and upgrades and currencies and check rides are common could you see the infrastructure that would take for bikes? getting your 6 month check ride, 20 hours - check ride, don't fly for 30 days - check ride, so on so forth. So yeah, it'd be expensive. I think if there was a correlation between taking upgrade courses and a noticeble differene on your insurance rates, THAT would entice people to do it.

As for 300/year insurance, I've seen some horrific crashes (other than this months one in fergus) where the pilot walked away compared to some slow speed crashes on bike where the guy is messed up pretty bad... And riding in 2D vs flying in 3D? I think flying is easier until it all goes to **** and suddenly becomes harder than riding very very quickly.
 
DSoup said:
And riding in 2D vs flying in 3D? I think flying is easier until it all goes to **** and suddenly becomes harder than riding very very quickly.
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Some riders try to ride in 3D
 
Now you've done it. You have found one of my pet peeves.

What I would have liked to see on the M1 exit course that I took would be better instruction! The instruction was geared to passing the test set down by MTO. The skill set that MTO sets down for M1 exit isn't extensive enough to safely operate a motorcycle. The quality of the instruction varied from instructor to instructor. Having survived a decade of riding motorcycles doesn't mean you can teach. It is a skill that has to be learned no matter how enthusiastic you are about riding. Teaching an old fart like myself is different than teach some teenager, especially if they just spent all day in the classroom, and teaching females requires different techniques than teaching males. The instructors didn't have the skill set to transfer their year of experience into proper lessons. What I remember most from that course was how little I knew about riding a motorcycle. Before the course I was a little apprehensive, after the course I was scared ****less. My formal driving instruction (waaaaaay before graduated licensing) was two sessions a week, two hours per session, for 8 weeks and one on one instruction.

I’ve had one course to qualify for my MC licence and can only speak to the course I took. I don't know how other riding schools select and training their instructors. I hope they do a better job than where I took my course.

I've been trained/taught by a variety of organizations:
Military
Government (Provincial and Federal)
and Policing to name a few. The training/teaching has been to acquire certain skills as well as academic subjects as well on how to instruct so I can speak with some experience on the quality of the instruction I've received over the years. As Dasiffy and MacDoc mentioned in their post the course is not long enough. I've spoken to a number of Police motorcycle instructors at various skill competitions and the training period police motorcyclist is 2 weeks or 80 hours (not counting donut breaks). The course I took was one night and two days. Half of the second day was for testing. With lunch breaks the actual time with butt in the seat was down to below 10 hours. Not a lot of time to learn what you MUST know to survive in traffic especially city traffic. Not all of what is taught to police motorcyclist is applicable to the civilian rider, but I bet more than half of what is taught in the course is.
That was 7 years ago and since then I've taken 7 motorcycle related courses to refresh or to add to my skill set and I still have a lot to learn.
With the time limitation, you have a real challenge to teach your student what they MUST know to ride a motorcycle safely.
 
So yeah, it'd be expensive. I think if there was a correlation between taking upgrade courses and a noticeble difference on your insurance rates, THAT would entice people to do it.
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I guess the in between position might be that of the commercial trucking industry which has perhaps better entry barriers than motorcyclists - but yeah somehow getting it hooked to insurance would be an incentive.

Yet anyone can get on an eBike or bicycle and fly around in traffic with not even a hint of regulation.

Does anyone know the stats for those that take the motorcycle training courses like Mohawk ( and save insurance cost ) against accidents for those that don't take the course.

Certainly in my kids case the restrictions on when he could ride, booze, passenger etc I think are good ideas.

Australia has rider restrictions on what you are allowed to ride as a new rider and it's not cc based - for instance a KLR650 converted to single seat is allowed as a "learner machine" and their insurance costs are way way lower than ours.
The liability insurance is on the bike not the rider. - so for a KLR 650 converted it's $210 for the year. Regardless of your driving record and if you sell the bike the insurance for the rest of the year goes with it.

Somehow it works there and I think the fundamental is the what new riders are allowed to buy and ride.
Here is the program in Queensland.
http://www.motorcyclesafety.qld.gov.au/index.php/qt/site/your_licence_to_ride/

So aside from the skills being promoted - the truly risky machines are kept out of the hands of new riders so unlike here someone who thinks he's "outgrown" a 250 in a few weeks can't go out and buy a 600 SS and run around on it and learn the hardway.

The training courses cannot overcome the situation of unrestricted machine choice for the new rider. And we all pay. :(
 
texting and riding, im having a hard time trying figure it out..
 
I would have liked a bigger bike to try on the range, be it power restricted or whatever. I understand doing the course on small bikes it makes sense, but would have been nice to try out a full sized heavier bike, to see what it's like.
 
There are a lot of great ideas in this thread - which creates some opportunities for all of the courses to improve their offering. What didn't come up as often, thankfully, was the topic of liability. Logistically, it's very difficult to provide training that caters to very different skill levels, aptitudes and attitudes without boiling everything down to the lowest common denominator. Different bikes, bigger bikes, more difficult challenges - who gets to try them? What about when someone fails the test and says "I didn't get to try all the exercises. I wasn't properly prepared. I want a refund." Maybe that's just a customer service issue. How about when somebody falls on the test and says the same thing? What if they're hurt? Unfortunately, people are most likely to complain, or worse, when something doesn't go their way. It's much easier for the school to teach everyone to the same basic level. Despite a basic curriculum, I think most instructors at any of the courses try to challenge the more accomplished riders, and to provide extra information to those that are more inquisitive, without overloading or distracting those that aren't ready for it.

We can see from the posts that most of the folks are looking for more - looking for ways to improve on the basics. Of the other riders they learned alongside at the school(s), how many wanted the same thing?
When we look at what motivates people to take the course, the variety is endless. A few common ones:
- I already know everything, but my parents won't let me have the bike if I don't take a course
- I've been riding since I was 12, but I need the insurance discount
- my boyfriend/husband wanted me to take the course.

There are three common customers that aren't really motivated to learn, and one that may not even be motivated to ride.

-I always wanted a bike and I finally took the plunge - I want to do it right
-I rode when I was younger, but I need to update my skills
-I want to learn as much as I can. What's the next course after this?

There are some motivated riders...but they're in the same course as the group above. Maybe even all in the same group! That's a challenge.
I know a high-school teacher who has pointed this out. I think of the incredible challenges he must face - but in some ways he says it's easier to figure them out. He has the group for much longer, they're all the same age, and the vast majority of them are only there because they have to be, even if they enjoy it.
At a training course, the only similarity among them is that they are all paying customers and they're supposed to get what they paid for. They will quickly shout if it appears someone is getting more.
 
GentlemanRacer said:
I went to RTI and they covered most of the suggestions here. They didn't do 2up, but it rained during my course and we found it wasn't all that bad. They also talked about the swerve approaching intersections and smidsy's, we worked on some basic downshifting, it was pretty good. I still only did practice rides out in the 'burbs for 4 weeks after buying a bike before taking it downtown.

Some additional ones that would be like a day-3 would be:

- knees grip tank. better balance makes all the stuff they do teach stick better when you aren't wobbling with your weight on the bars.
- general road awareness, hazards, decisions, attitude. (on the road, assume the 3-i's: you're Invisible, everyone else is Insane, and your family will be Inconsolable; pilot's OODA etc.)
- maybe a way to give you an idea of how much traction the bike really has, even a basic gymkhana demo, what you can trust about how the bike will behave.
- "no rear brakes!", "no front brakes!", "no power!", "no traction!"
- PLF falling, just so people won't be thinking about what it's like.

These are bonus on top of what was already taught, but some confidence that you can survive these things will make learning the other stuff easier because you won't be wasting time worrying about it.
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The raining weekend with RTI, was that the July 7/8 weekend? I was there. I thought the course was fair given the amount of time allocated for the required learning skills. Many great ideas on here. My two cents is more time on the slow turns, slow firgure eights feathering the clutch and using the back brake. Still not that comfortable with that and I feel that this is where I will drop my bike one day...
I also saw a video on youtube where they actually had you leaning on the bike (stationary) with your classmates holding it for you so that you could get a comfortlevel and feel what it feels like to lean the bike into corners.
 
afelotreyu said:
texting and riding, im having a hard time trying figure it out..
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It works better if you get a throttle lock so you don't need to keep it held open yourself.
 
Hey guys and gals,

figured I'd bump this post and see where it got me.

What did you wish you had learn't in your m1exit motorcycle course? What did you like that you were taught? What didn't you like?

Any and all responses welcome!
 
I was with Learning Curves and was pleased with everything they taught me. Really wished we were able to have more "practical road preparedness" time to understand blocking, riding with others, parking in a parking space. I understand the liability issue when it comes to having students drop a bike and pick it up on their own, but even an instructor demo would be better than nothing imo. Another thing is to have a few minutes dedicated to "straight aways" so we can garner enough speed to get the hang of shifting.

During my course I struggled with the concept of shifting because we were going a max of 40kph in a short space. I was going into second 50% of the time. The second I got my bike, I went to a dead end street (a long stretch), and was able to teach myself to hit my gears about 99% of the time (1% false neutral). It was so quick for me and I wish I had to the opportunity to do that so that I wouldn't have been so frustrated during the course (and would've been able to focus on other things like low speed turns).
 
My $.02


If you pop the clutch in 1st while sitting atop a learners bike (- 250cc), the bike will kick an inch and stall.
If you then buy a 600cc bike and do the same thing, it will flip.

NEVER Pop the clutch while in first without first knowing what you are doing.

Did well over $3k damage to my first bike the first day/ride.

D
 
AF4iK said:
Gymkhana skillz!
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Probably coming soon....but you would have had the basics - didn't you do figure 8's (personal fave)?
 
Derek Paisley said:
My $.02

If you pop the clutch in 1st while sitting atop a learners bike (- 250cc), the bike will kick an inch and stall.
If you then buy a 600cc bike and do the same thing, it will flip.

NEVER Pop the clutch while in first without first knowing what you are doing.

Did well over $3k damage to my first bike the first day/ride.

D
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The topic is "things you wished a motorcycle course taught" Small bike or not, at a course you would have spent a significant amount of time learning the proper way to release the clutch. You had to get past the "kick an inch and stall" phase to keep the bike running.

It seems you simply made a mistake on your first ride.
 
Proper posing technique at Timmies
Which flip flops and wifebeater are more aerodynamic?
If wearing one piece suit-hump or no hump, and proper etiquette of putting a pair of socks down the front of the pants (also add section "how to get coffee stains out of leather")
Correct RPM to rev bike to: 1. Under bridge 2. At junction downtown 3. Outside intensive care centre of hospital
Greasing axle sticks
How to stop wheelying
How to ride absolutely everywhere in 1st gear
How to remove all visibility aids from bike
 
Emefef said:
The topic is "things you wished a motorcycle course taught" Small bike or not, at a course you would have spent a significant amount of time learning the proper way to release the clutch. You had to get past the "kick an inch and stall" phase to keep the bike running.

It seems you simply made a mistake on your first ride.
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I took the course about 8 years ago or so at Humber.
The proper way to release the clutch was not the issue as I had a blast riding all over the place when I took the course.

What I said in relation to "Things I wish they would have taught me" is in direct relation to when you stall their bike, at a stop in 1st gear, as most of the students did at that time.
** On their bikes, it was VERY common for someone to come to a stop in first and release the clutch. Thus Stalling the bike **
It had nothing to do with Riding around.... It had to do with them not providing a relative scenario to when you are on a larger displacement bike.

I hope that helped clear that up for you.

D
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