Yea I liked the figure 8. I also liked that challenging snake-like drill we did at the end of the msf just before testing. Looking forward to Honda's red event this weekend. Hopefully I won't be too hung over after beer fest lol
Things you wished a motorcycle course taught
- Thread starter wearelopey
- Start date
Yea I liked the figure 8. I also liked that challenging snake-like drill we did at the end of the msf just before testing. Looking forward to Honda's red event this weekend. Hopefully I won't be too hung over after beer fest lol
I didn't read through the other posts..so this may be a repeat or stupid to mention. But when I started riding 8 yrs ago and took the m1 exit course..I left feeling a bit naive when I had my bike on the streets about the following:
1) I didn't know you had to watch the gas fill up vs. How it stops on its own in a car
2) tap the gas nozzle a few times then flip it upside down so it doesnt drip on the tank
3) how to "turn off" your turn signal lol
4) that you dont trigger red lights.
I mean all really minor things that you learn quickly, but as a new rider I never thought to ask till I was riding. Lol
1) I didn't know you had to watch the gas fill up vs. How it stops on its own in a car
2) tap the gas nozzle a few times then flip it upside down so it doesnt drip on the tank
3) how to "turn off" your turn signal lol
4) that you dont trigger red lights.
I mean all really minor things that you learn quickly, but as a new rider I never thought to ask till I was riding. Lol
Sorry Derek,
But maybe I'm still missing your point. The examples you're giving are of people already making mistakes - and those people would have been coached to do it properly. If they make the same mistake on a bigger bike, it's still something that they were taught not to do.
If you're talking about the (very common) issue of a new rider stopping with the throttle on (caused usually by wrist position or by rolling back the entire hand to pull the brake lever) and the engine revving and dropping the clutch, that would certainly be different on a bigger bike, but it didn't always result in a stall on the 250 Viragos either, and again, it was something they were taught not to do.
I guess what I'm wondering is, if we teach and coach the correct way to do it, and explain the reasons why smooth clutch control is important, how much more do we need?
The thing is, like braking in a curve, there are many factors to consider when you're telling people what could happen. We can't say "this is what WILL happen if you do this". If you drop the clutch at a stop, you are very likely to simply stall. If you've still got the throttle turned, it could be way different. If you stop in the "ready position", as you were taught and coached, you should stall because the throttle is closed and the rear brake is on.
If you're doing it right, and you know why it's done that way, the principles always apply. I'm just not sure that any additional guidance about all of the things that could go wrong would be really helpful - we mention several times during the weekend that your own clutch and throttle will be different (we remind everyone as a group before the second session because they'll be on a different bike), and you'll have to apply the techniques and get used to your own bike.
Derek Paisley
Well-known member
Nope. You are bang on, just missing my obvious point. You note that (They were adequately coached) Which is my point exactly. When I took the course, they did NOT address those who were in fact stalling their 250's. They did not address those who sat in 1st rather than neutral and stalled the bike. They also did not speak to those who did stall the bike by not shifting into Neutral and how if they were to do this on a larger displacement such as a 600 or 750 that they could expect something a lot more violent. I appreciate your example in your post, as I completely understand. My $.02 cents as I noted is in reference to when I took the course years ago. I do expect that they continue to update the course by way of collecting feedback and whatnot. It's all good.
mahnoy
Well-known member
I took the course 5 years ago at St Claire College and had 0 experience on a motorcycle. I dropped the bike 3 times during the course and didn't think I was going to make it... But the instructors worked on me and I passed with flying colors.
The course taught me how to ride (how to get it rolling, how to brake, turn, etc) which is what it should do... but here are a few suggestions I have for the course to prepare someone for the road.
1 - Getting the bike to minimum speed limit (40-50km/hr). It allows the student to go through 3 gears instead of 2 and the student will have a feel of the speed.
2 - Putting more emphasis on counter-steering. I remember they taught it to us, but for a person who's never been on a bike, I didn't really "get it". I remember being tensed on the bike and putting all the weight on my wrist. They should have taught me to hug the tank with my legs and loosen up on my grip to get more control on the corners.
3 - What to do in the event of a crash. I got into an accident when I took a corner and there was oil on the road. I felt the bike slip and knew I was losing control and I tried to fight it, causing me to highside. One of the guys told me I should have ridden through the wobble and it will either correct itself, or worse case scenario i would have lowsided.
I also wished they had different options for bikes. I learned on a Honda Shadow and i thought the bike felt really heavy (I was less than 100lb at the time). My first bike was a Honda CBR125 and I felt more in control than on the cruiser.
The course taught me how to ride (how to get it rolling, how to brake, turn, etc) which is what it should do... but here are a few suggestions I have for the course to prepare someone for the road.
1 - Getting the bike to minimum speed limit (40-50km/hr). It allows the student to go through 3 gears instead of 2 and the student will have a feel of the speed.
2 - Putting more emphasis on counter-steering. I remember they taught it to us, but for a person who's never been on a bike, I didn't really "get it". I remember being tensed on the bike and putting all the weight on my wrist. They should have taught me to hug the tank with my legs and loosen up on my grip to get more control on the corners.
3 - What to do in the event of a crash. I got into an accident when I took a corner and there was oil on the road. I felt the bike slip and knew I was losing control and I tried to fight it, causing me to highside. One of the guys told me I should have ridden through the wobble and it will either correct itself, or worse case scenario i would have lowsided.
I also wished they had different options for bikes. I learned on a Honda Shadow and i thought the bike felt really heavy (I was less than 100lb at the time). My first bike was a Honda CBR125 and I felt more in control than on the cruiser.
Guys know this instinctively
Good points though.
Lol...well I guess it should be taught to those who have a V where your P would be =)
iegod
Well-known member
Cornering and body position. Leaning your body properly and not against the bike, staying light on the bars, hugging the bike with your legs. After watching Twist of the Wrist my entire riding experience changed, for the better. I was immediately more confident on the bike to a degree that was never achieved in that class.
Advice on crashing is truly pointless. When it happens, you do not have time to think about what Mr. Johnson told you at motorcycle school. The best advice is to be dressed for it, because even the world's best MotoGP racers, which are 1000X better than you or me, high side and crash. Most supersports riders still run around with helmets and back protectors, with sneakers and t-shirts. Like wearing a kevlar thong to fight in a war.
Modern bikes are ridiculous. Today's CBR250 would have been considered a rocket in the 60s-70s, and modern supersports bikes make more power than 70s MotoGP bikes. The only thing that has stopped more deaths is the insurance industry, because not that long ago, a 16 year old kid on a learners written test could strap on to a GSXR1000. Fat cruisers are popular , and dangerous, because they handle and brake like crap.
Check out the Kijiji ads...hundreds of supersports bikes beign sold with leathers and helmets and "slight damage" because riders scared themselves after losing control.
This is typical:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0NaqpW-9LA
slightly too much throttle...and 100hp hits you in the face.
Left lane banditry. 
Oh wait, many of the schools do teach that. 
For goodness sake, if you're not passing then pull over.
If you insist on not pulling over, don't have a snit-fit when someone pulls up close behind you wanting to pass, find an opening in the middle lane and slow down so that the faster traffic can pull around you.
Oh wait, many of the schools do teach that. For goodness sake, if you're not passing then pull over.
If you insist on not pulling over, don't have a snit-fit when someone pulls up close behind you wanting to pass, find an opening in the middle lane and slow down so that the faster traffic can pull around you.
Best thing you could ever do is take a superbike class at Mosport. They teach you how to corner and brake. Best course I ever took, and that was 15 years after getting licenced.
Licencing courses teach you how to get a licence.
Left lane banditry.
But police do not enforce this, instead, they sit in their cars with radar guns. Those little signs on the 400 highways are pointless too. Ontario should spend money on TV education ads on how to drive, because few people know they should not be in the left lane if not passing. In Europe, everyone knows this. Everyone.
The problem with that is that you learn a little about driving at Mosport, but nothing about driving on city streets and highways.
How would police enforce against left lane banditry? Would we need some kind of law that says if six vehicles are following and wanting to pass, you're it? What would happen during rush hours? Would it be enforceable?
For speeding: On average I see one of those cars with radar guns every two weeks or more. That only gives them 25 opportunities to "cash grab" me per year. If I'm not doing stupid things relative to the other drivers, and don't already have a pile of tickets pending, or going relatively faster than others, I can speed with impunity, up to a certain limit. The trick here is to know your limits, and not be the lucky one that wins the lottery over and over and over.
Back to my point now. Not driving in the left lane is a courtesy to others. The schools and boards and general motorcyclist population, seem to have decided that the middle lane is ever so much more dangerous than the others, and the right lane is just as bad due to merging traffic. This means that the majority of motorcyclists get the impression, that moving left as soon as you get on a highway, and staying there for the duration is the only safe way to ride. This creates incidents with other motorists who, rightly want to pass, and have every right to do so, but are being impeded by said motorcyclists. There are cars that do this as well, but there is a much higher percentage of motorcyclists who do so, to the detriment of themselves and others.
And it doesn't matter if you're doing the speed limit, 20 over, 50 over or even 100 over, there will always be someone stupider than you wanting to go faster. I always try to let them by, and deploy as my personal radar detector.
I had that happen last weekend, a couple of bikes in the leftmost passing express lane doing a buck ten, from 35/115 all the way to the 427. It took me a long time to get by them as they'd speed up when there was an opening to their right. One "gentleman" in a car, got in front more quickly by cutting onto an on ramp, passing a couple of cars on the right, and then swinging across four lanes of traffic and just missing the front end of the lead biker, forcing him and the rest of us to brake hard. Luckily we weren't in a multi vehicle pile up. Anyway, it's better to pay attention, the passing lane isn't the bike cruise lane or snooze lane. Drive safe.
Just experienced streetcar tracks for the first time this morning. It only made my bike wiggle a bit, but even why I purposely bring the clutch in, cross the tracks at the steepest angle possible and avoid any sudden movements, both tires (new, soft, super-grippy Avon touring tires) lose traction for a split second. Not enough to induce panic, but it's certainly unsettling!
Red_Liner740
Well-known member
Some of these requests border on insanity, almost to the point where you're asking the RTI instructors to teach you how to wipe your ***.
You want the whole shebang?....its gonna be a 2 week intensive course and the cost is 2Gs....NOBODY will show up!
Courses advertise advance riding classes, they dont get utilized nearly enough.
The funniest part is, we live in an information age where any and all information is literally a few finger taps away....ANYWHERE.
In what other part of human civilization was so much information available while taking a crap? Wanna learn how to XX? 95% theres a Youtube video out there showing you how to do it.
Take ownership of your own life...
You want the whole shebang?....its gonna be a 2 week intensive course and the cost is 2Gs....NOBODY will show up!
Courses advertise advance riding classes, they dont get utilized nearly enough.
The funniest part is, we live in an information age where any and all information is literally a few finger taps away....ANYWHERE.
In what other part of human civilization was so much information available while taking a crap? Wanna learn how to XX? 95% theres a Youtube video out there showing you how to do it.
Take ownership of your own life...
^
In a perfect world, I'd like a 3 weekend course or something ridiculous (I'd imagine the costs would be high as hell, not profitable, and would eventually flop).
First weekend would be parking lot to get MTO license.
Second weekend would be Total Control style training in a parking lot
Third weekend would be on a race track implementing a mix between Total Control and TWOT concepts
This is in hindsight though, I have a feeling the difficulty gap from weekend 1 to 2 would be way too large. But while RTI teaches you how to operate a motorcycle, they don't teach you how to turn. I see so many new riders with straight backs, stiff arms and counter leaning while turning.
In a perfect world, I'd like a 3 weekend course or something ridiculous (I'd imagine the costs would be high as hell, not profitable, and would eventually flop).
First weekend would be parking lot to get MTO license.
Second weekend would be Total Control style training in a parking lot
Third weekend would be on a race track implementing a mix between Total Control and TWOT concepts
This is in hindsight though, I have a feeling the difficulty gap from weekend 1 to 2 would be way too large. But while RTI teaches you how to operate a motorcycle, they don't teach you how to turn. I see so many new riders with straight backs, stiff arms and counter leaning while turning.
油井緋色;2085134 said:
How do you know all of those people you see took a course? Basic rider training is basic rider training - and just because you learn how to do it while you're there, doesn't mean you'll be doing it properly when you leave. I agree with Red Liner's sentiment, if not the brutally forthright delivery
, take ownership for your safety and skills development. Learn the basics - get better at them. Seek out the answers you don't have. Find out what courses come next. Take one. Practice those skills. Every ride is an opportunity to practice. Instead of thinking about where you're going, think about what you're doing, and concentrate on doing it better. Think about how and why things happen to make you uncomfortable, and how and why to prevent it if necessary.To the posters that have mentioned that advanced courses are under utilized - you're absolutely correct. After a few years of riding, most people are only interested in what they perceive to be "really advanced" courses like track courses. There are some pretty talented instructors at the regular schools in Ontario that could teach most riders more advanced skills.
Many riders recognize what they could do better, but don't even take the first simple step to improve - set aside some time and space and truly practice. Set goals and practice until you can achieve them. If you won't do this with basic skills, what's the point in seeking instruction on advanced skills?
crackerjack
Active member
I took the m1 exit course in April. I think the instructors did a great job teaching me the basics. I had never been on a bike before that course. One thing I wish they had taught us during the course was how to do a proper pre-trip inspection to make sure the bike is safe. You know, like checking the tires, suspension, lights and whatever else needs to be checked before a bike ride. I still don't know what I'm supposed to check!
We do a very basic exercise about the pre-ride inspection, and about every third sentence in the lesson is "check your owner's manual". It should be in there.
I don't think I've ever seen Corunna in a signature before! I lived there a few years when I was too young to remember.
crackerjack
Active member
I ride a used 81 Silverwing. I have never seen that manual. I think it was lost many, many years ago LOL. I actually just added Corunna to my profile today. Didn't think anyone would notice!
