Well without a manual, there are all kinds of different ways you can do a pre-ride inspection. Here's a thread right here on GTA to help you out.
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?54256-T-clock-(Pre-trip-Inspection-Routines)
Things you wished a motorcycle course taught
- Thread starter wearelopey
- Start date
Well without a manual, there are all kinds of different ways you can do a pre-ride inspection. Here's a thread right here on GTA to help you out.
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?54256-T-clock-(Pre-trip-Inspection-Routines)
wearelopey
Well-known member
Stoppies
I've actually taught with an instructor that did this when emergency braking just to show how quickly the bike would stop.
Im sure most can see why this is frowned upon within BEGINNER motorcycle instruction.
Good stuff everyone, this thread is turning into exactly what I wanted it to be, an amalgamation of tips that beginner riders find/found useful.
I've gone through this thread more than a couple of times and written down different things new riders would have loved to have had earlier in their career. I've used a bunch of them as well, so your efforts are definitely going towards an end.
In terms of a longer, more intensive course, I don't think m1exit -> total control -> track day within 3 weeks of riding would be effective. Each course seems to me as more of a yearly progression (maybe even 2 years) than a weekly one.
What I've been thinking about recently is:
A/ some kind of handout for students after both the in-class and on-lot portions of the course.
We teach bracing with your knees and loose on the bars in the course, however by test time most students have forgotten. Another big one is resting your heels on the foot pegs rather than the balls of your feet. We have a saying that "you can't fail ugly". In other words, the question must be asked in regards to balance between getting students ready for the test vs getting them ready for proper riding. Badly phrased but I'm sure you get the point. If someone is not bracing with their knees but completes the test, there's nothing we can do. Something like a booklet with main points of lessons and a diagram comparing good vs bad body positioning.
I'm still questioning whether anything we teach during the in-class portion really sticks. So much variation between what instructors teach for each lesson that it is difficult for me to conclude anything about what should actually be taught and what shouldn't
B/ video or photo analysis.
Found this to be really effective when I took Total Control. Visuals are key when teaching adults. I might have felt like I was putting my knee out, or getting low to the ground, but to have a tangible image proving the distance from the ground etc really taught me how counter-intuitive motorcycle riding really was. My gripe with beginners however, is whether they will be able to process on the fly the images we show them. And further, would they be able to correct on the fly? Would it be information overload (all they see is an image, no context)?
C/ More visuals in general on the lot (on-bike training).
For instance I have a buddy who always tries to bring in a bicycle wheel to show how push steering works.
What does everyone think? Lets try to keep things positive. Productive criticism etc please
and as the title states, keep the recommendations coming!
P.S. do any of you remember anything from the in-class portion?
If so, what did you find helpful? What did you not like? What did you wish they taught you?
Any traffic situations that really scared you when you got on the street? Would an emphasis on prep for the M2-Exit (road test) have been helpful?
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wearelopey
Well-known member
responding to those comments regarding advanced training, what about a weekly or bi-weekly riding clinic?
Cost could range from free to maybe $50 (would depend on many factors). It would be on a show-up basis, you could miss a couple and still be able to jump right in.
Maybe 2 groups, beginner and advanced as I could see various exercises only appealing to one group or the other. Maybe not?
It would have themes to each clinic, which the group would choose if it were regulars (or randomized). Roughly it would consist of an instructor setting up skill-specific drills and giving tips.
Maybe even more community based where the instructor rides along as well and everyone sort of learns from each other (everyone gets the theme a couple of days to a week prior, it is then up to them to do research or whatever they want). Instructor would be there to facilitate and make sure at least someone is researching the skills a bit before they are learn't
Maybe it wouldn't have any structure. the facilitator would play it by ear, maybe themed the first couple of weeks and then just see where it goes. Could get interesting.
I used to take boxing and the class always began with a warm up, and then went into some variation of exercises based on skill level etc. I really enjoyed that at least once a week I could go in, do some random stuff (not so random to instructor) and over time get better at it. Commitment was minimal and if I missed a week it wasn't like I got behind. In fact in those classes skill level varied as well. the beginners would do knee pushups etc while the pros would do weighted dips etc. There was always something for everyone to do.
I think the biggest issue would be congruency on the instructor's side. Making sure that you were there at the time specified whether 20 people showed up or none, rain or shine. It would be a fairly large commitment.
Thoughts?
Cost could range from free to maybe $50 (would depend on many factors). It would be on a show-up basis, you could miss a couple and still be able to jump right in.
Maybe 2 groups, beginner and advanced as I could see various exercises only appealing to one group or the other. Maybe not?
It would have themes to each clinic, which the group would choose if it were regulars (or randomized). Roughly it would consist of an instructor setting up skill-specific drills and giving tips.
Maybe even more community based where the instructor rides along as well and everyone sort of learns from each other (everyone gets the theme a couple of days to a week prior, it is then up to them to do research or whatever they want). Instructor would be there to facilitate and make sure at least someone is researching the skills a bit before they are learn't
Maybe it wouldn't have any structure. the facilitator would play it by ear, maybe themed the first couple of weeks and then just see where it goes. Could get interesting.
I used to take boxing and the class always began with a warm up, and then went into some variation of exercises based on skill level etc. I really enjoyed that at least once a week I could go in, do some random stuff (not so random to instructor) and over time get better at it. Commitment was minimal and if I missed a week it wasn't like I got behind. In fact in those classes skill level varied as well. the beginners would do knee pushups etc while the pros would do weighted dips etc. There was always something for everyone to do.
I think the biggest issue would be congruency on the instructor's side. Making sure that you were there at the time specified whether 20 people showed up or none, rain or shine. It would be a fairly large commitment.
Thoughts?
skip
Well-known member
How to pick a bike up off its side without hurting yourself. A rider may find themselves hving to right a fallen motorcycle for any number of reasons, and if you don't know the right technique it (literally) a pain in the back.
Actually RTI is the only riding school as far as I know that has a variety of bikes for the m1x course.
At Learning Curves we have a wide variety of bikes.
I just got my M1 in mid July, did the parking lot practise before venturing out into the roads which was totally different and scary since also being a car driver, know what can happen if you do not see the motorcycle rider in your travels. This forum says you should practise and ride alone until you have at least 1k km under your belt. This may be good advice but to a person who had never ridden a bike before taking the training, where do you learn the right habits since everything you learnt in 1.5 days in your training class is a bit of blur now? I like the idea of having clinics available to people who are willing to pay (makes people show up!) and then learn from a qualified instructor the right way to do left turns, how to recover if you muff it, etc. I also like the suggestion of taking a trail riding course which I plan to do in the spring to improve my riding in non road conditions. People on this forum have years of experience and automatically do things like counter steering, look where you want to, how to recover from slipping on gravel or an oil stain whereas a newbie may have been told what to do but does not have the muscle memory and knowledge to pull it off successfully. We definitely need something to help new riders become experienced riders and though the M1 exit course is a start, it really only helps people get their licence and not much more.
im old enough that courses did not exist when i got licensed . But having read this forum for a while there should be a lunch time talk about , if you buy a bike get the manual, 95% of your questions are answered there.
The oil you sould use is in the manual.
Tell them what to do if they get left on the side of the road, have a plan to be rescued.
Maybe talk about how to get a bike safety checked.
Let them know if they turn up on a forum and smack talk after two weeks of riding, people will see right through them.
The oil you sould use is in the manual.
Tell them what to do if they get left on the side of the road, have a plan to be rescued.
Maybe talk about how to get a bike safety checked.
Let them know if they turn up on a forum and smack talk after two weeks of riding, people will see right through them.
Love the last one!
We used to do a wrap up session while testers were finishing the paperwork, and addressed a lot of those things. It often dragged on too long for many people who were just anxious to get going, and feedback showed that they would rather get out asap.
The problem with doing things at lunchtime is that you either need everyone to stay, or the messages are delivered inconsistently. I'm pretty confident that any students that choose to hang around during lunches already engage the instructors in conversations like those - it's just difficult to make it a formal part of the curriculum if not everyone gets it.
Roomie
Banned
Actually there are instances where you have time to think about what's going to happen. I did and I'm very positively sure that's why I wasn't more hurt.
Also no offence but you need to get off the "crotch rockets shouldn't be allowed on the streets" kick. People hurt themselves on many different bikes. I've seen it happen even on 250's to people I personally know. Bike licensing should be done in stages and longer courses like a "young drivers" for bikes should be mandatory. Period.
Sent from my piss poor iPhone while sitting on my squidly gixxxxxxxxxer
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iphone or gixxxxer, something crashed!
Roomie
Banned
Operator not awake yet :sleepy5:
Maybe I should get an android phone and ride a Vespa and I'd be ok :thumbup:
Sent from my piss poor iPhone while sitting on my squidly gixxxxxxxxxer
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dgcx
Well-known member
there's nothing wrong with any course. a good suggestion would be assign students study materials like watching twist of the wrist. the principals are there. teaching it in-class is one thing but learning how to apply these principles and develop the mental and muscle memory is different. there's only so much time during the class to fit in everything, theoretical and practical. slow speed maneuvering has probably been the important take away IMO for the street as anyone wanting to go fast should and will probably enroll in racing instruction from actually experienced racers not some idiot behind a computer telling you the wrong thing. aren't the majority of safety hazards/incidents with motorcycles are speed related? i don't know the statistic. anyway good topic OP.
WOW, this thread has been interesting to read. I'm feeling seriously OLD ... took my course at Centennial College in 1987 !!!!! The course was very, very different at that time. It was a total obstacle course with figure 8's, loops, stopping in a corner between markers, but you had to get the bike up to speed and in 3rd gear, jumping a tire (in total about 10 tests) blah blah blah. Oh and by the way, you had to do all of it in "one" go. All of it was consecutive, no stopping. If you put your feet down more then 2x (when you weren't supposed to) you automatically failed. (They also taught us how to pick up a bike, but it wasn't part of the test.) Needless to say, only 65 to 70% of the class would pass the course. At that time, you would get a full "M" licence AND YOU ONLY HAD 1 CRACK AT IT. The course was difficult but you learned a lot. I suppose the insurance companies wouldn't allow this anymore. I will say that it made me a better "new" rider at the time.
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Even in countries with graded licencing, super sports bikes lead in fatalities. You can argue all you want, but the reality is the more powerful the bike, the more likely you are to get killed on it.
Smokers always tell the story of the guy who lived to be 100 on a pack a day...that's not the average. And everybody, everybody, thinks they are immune from averages and statistics, and everyone considers themselves above average.
I just think super sports bikes need some common sense. Just because you can make and sell a 160hp bike, doesn't mean its a good idea.
Roomie
Banned
So by those standards we should rid the road of everything other than a smart car or Prius? Maybe if people were better educated on how to use machines like this then those statistics would drop. People need to conform not the machines. They're here to stay.
Sent from my piss poor iPhone while sitting on my squidly gixxxxxxxxer sippin on kool aid
Sent from my piss poor iPhone while sitting on my squidly gixxxxxxxxer sippin on kool aid
It's a great idea-wtf are you talking about. The SS manufacturers and those who own stock have made a great deal of money being able to provide machinery like this.
Bikes don't need brains - riders do. If you can't handle it then don't do it! Easy.
I track exclusively. Just because someone else can tip into a corner at xxxkm/hr does NOT mean I can too. All bikes can be ridden slowly just as they can be fast.
The trick is to ride, drive,run,walk ski,skate at your own ability.
YOUR brain,use it for YOURself.
dgcx
Well-known member
another tool would be to bring in someone or have a graphic testimonial explaining the consequences of dangerous riding and not practicing safety judiciously. nothing works better than a real scare tactic. the more graphic and detailed the more effective it can be. the reenactment videos they show in class don't have the same effectiveness.
