The vaccines arent coming | GTAMotorcycle.com

The vaccines arent coming

bigpoppa

bigpoppa

Well-known member
good article from independent news outlet:

rabble.ca

Dipping into vaccines through COVAX, Canada tries to have it both ways

What’s more “embarrassing,” the fact that Canada is buying vaccines through COVAX, a program run by the WHO (a UN agency) to supply vaccines to poor nations, or the sanctimony of Canadians who are “shocked” to hear it? Stephen Lewis says “It’s just wrong morally.” Former NDP leader Thomas...
rabble.ca rabble.ca

TLDR version:
canada doesnt make anything and its economy relies entirely on its natural resource sectors, contracts for vaccines are meaningless and countries which produce vaccines are going to vaccinate their own before they fulfill any contracts to foreign countries(like canada)

Canada is now taking vaccines from the welfare pile intended for use in poor underdeveloped countries
 
This is possibly somewhat outdated. We're supposed to get a shipment of 400,000+ Pfizer shots this week and more going forward. I don't think the Covax situation will play out as described - Health Canada hasn't even approved that vaccine. There is a contract directly with AstraZeneca in the event that Health Canada does approve that vaccine.
 
the story that seems to be overlooked
is how the FedGov went all in on a partnership with CanSino
the Can part of that name is significant

CanSino founders were educated in Canada, went back home and founded the Co
they continued to receive scientific help from our National Research Council

fast forward to the pandemic, May 2020
FedGov inked the agreement for Canada to be part of the CanSino vaccine trials
public money was used to build a lab at National Research Council for small run manufacture for testing purposes

after stealing our IP, the CCP banned export of the vaccine to Canada
no participation in the trials, no CanSino vaccine for us
months and millions were wasted on an agreement with a Co
controlled by a Gov with which we have an ongoing diplomatic spat

in July, it become evident that the trial and vaccine manufacture agreement was falling apart
after that, in August, the first acquisition deals with Pfizer and Moderna were signed
August, until the Gov had done anything useful towards vaccine availability

rhetorical question: was it reasonable to assume there would be eventual trouble with this agreement?

footnote: our federally funded scientists are still cooperating with CanSino
 
This whole Covax thing seems to be a whole bunch of talk about nothing. Easy to get riled up if you just read that article or similar, but falls apart if you look deeper into it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

Covax is designed to allow self-financed countries such as Canada to purchase through the program. Canada is not stealing vaccines from lower income countries. The more countries that buy through it, the more purchasing power the alliance has overall.

From Gavi, one of the partners in Covax - COVAX explained

Separately, Canada has obviously done some things incorrectly as far as procuring doses, though I can't point a specific finger as to what that is. Canada currently sits near (at?) the bottom of developed countries in number of people/capita that have received the vaccine.
 
J_F said:
after stealing our IP, the CCP banned export of the vaccine to Canada
no participation in the trials, no CanSino vaccine for us
months and millions were wasted on an agreement with a Co
controlled by a Gov with which we have an ongoing diplomatic spat
Click to expand...

Why is this a surprise to anyone? Ripping off Western R&D is China's bread and butter -- no matter the industry. For example, it's an open secret that Huawei's success is mostly off the back of pilfered Nortel IP. And why are we even negotiating vaccine deals with China? We are in this pandemic because of China to begin with, we shouldn't be negotiating anything like this with them.

What I don't understand is why we didn't make a deal with the US. They manufacture their own vaccines, and we're only ~36 million people -- 10% of their population. Incremental vaccine shipments to Canada would be a rounding error for them, I'm sure we could have worked something out. But that would require Trudeau to swallow his pride and talk to Trump, instead of playing international politics and making a big show of it.

I'm hopeful that the initial delays with Pfizer and Moderna were actually just production issues and not politicking. If it keeps happening again, we're going to be in for the same year as last year. All this while we watch the US become fully vaccinated by July/August.
 
d4rktrooper788 said:
Why is this a surprise to anyone? Ripping off Western R&D is China's bread and butter -- no matter the industry. For example, it's an open secret that Huawei's success is mostly off the back of pilfered Nortel IP. And why are we even negotiating vaccine deals with China? We are in this pandemic because of China to begin with, we shouldn't be negotiating anything like this with them.

What I don't understand is why we didn't make a deal with the US. They manufacture their own vaccines, and we're only ~36 million people -- 10% of their population. Incremental vaccine shipments to Canada would be a rounding error for them, I'm sure we could have worked something out. But that would require Trudeau to swallow his pride and talk to Trump, instead of playing international politics and making a big show of it.

I'm hopeful that the initial delays with Pfizer and Moderna were actually just production issues and not politicking. If it keeps happening again, we're going to be in for the same year as last year. All this while we watch the US become fully vaccinated by July/August.
Click to expand...
I think this was in the CNN article,
trump refused so canada hasnt tried again
 
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It was expected that the USA would not be exporting any vaccine produced within its borders. Canada already had a taste of this with the PPE situation early on.

Trudeau and company trying to make a deal with the Chinese was a bad move that stunk from the very beginning. But subsequently making deals with European supply sources as opposed to the Americans, was the right course of action under the circumstances.
 
Canada needs to smarten up and start building more resources locally to be more self sustaining instead of hoping for a deal from our weak politicians.

2021 is looking more and more like another write off....
 
sburns said:
Canada needs to smarten up and start building more resources locally to be more self sustaining instead of hoping for a deal from our weak politicians.

2021 is looking more and more like another write off....
Click to expand...

This requires governments to clue in that endless budget cuts doesn't necessarily put us in a good place, and a population that also clues in to the same and doesn't vote in governments solely on their promises to cut taxes while giving out handouts.

Before the pandemic, a publicly-funded production facility for a highly-specialised product like a vaccine would have been regarded as an unnecessary expense ("Why are we spending valuable tax dollars to support this facility that isn't earning its keep?"), and a privately-held production facility for such a product would have required public support (funding) to keep the plant here instead of closing it and consolidating production in, let's say, Michigan.
 
Brian P said:
It was expected that the USA would not be exporting any vaccine produced within its borders. Canada already had a taste of this with the PPE situation early on.

Trudeau and company trying to make a deal with the Chinese was a bad move that stunk from the very beginning. But subsequently making deals with European supply sources as opposed to the Americans, was the right course of action under the circumstances.
Click to expand...

Fair. Maybe there is some contingency plan going on behind the scenes with Biden, who knows. I just hope we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot just to make some point about not relying on the US.


Brian P said:
Before the pandemic, a publicly-funded production facility for a highly-specialised product like a vaccine would have been regarded as an unnecessary expense ("Why are we spending valuable tax dollars to support this facility that isn't earning its keep?"), and a privately-held production facility for such a product would have required public support (funding) to keep the plant here instead of closing it and consolidating production in, let's say, Michigan.
Click to expand...

I think after this pandemic, the public perception towards pandemic response and public health will change for the best. At least I hope it does. This is the biggest pandemic we've had since the Spanish Flu, and it should stick in people's minds for at least this generation.
 
there's certain things that a huge country with sparse population
just can't leave to private enterprise as they're not economical

vaccine production was one them
we still have the science
but gave away our ability to manufacture to scale
 
..also wasn’t wise to play the american lapdog by keeping a Huawei exec under house arrest for the yanks in Vancouver.
 
d4rktrooper788 said:
Fair. Maybe there is some contingency plan going on behind the scenes with Biden, who knows. I just hope we aren't shooting ourselves in the foot just to make some point about not relying on the US.




I think after this pandemic, the public perception towards pandemic response and public health will change for the best. At least I hope it does. This is the biggest pandemic we've had since the Spanish Flu, and it should stick in people's minds for at least this generation.
Click to expand...

I'd bet some dough that Biden and JT have had this conversation
you may not see much public commentary on it though

we had a long standing diplomatic agreement with the US - Quiet Diplomacy

in agreement with Canada not publicly criticizing US foreign policy
the White House had an open door policy where our input was always heard and respected
pretty good way for allies to deal with each other

Chrétien killed the custom that preceded him by 100 years
I think with Old Joe in the chair, we'll get back to Quiet Diplomacy
 
jc100 said:
..also wasn’t wise to play the american lapdog by keeping a Huawei exec under house arrest for the yanks in Vancouver.
Click to expand...
uh we signed a treaty, we have the legal obligation to do so. the government is not consulted, they are informed likely just before or during the arrest.
 
Last time I spoke to my family doctor he guessed that we plebes would see the vaccine in late August or early September.
I'll add a month to that.
 
regder said:
This whole Covax thing seems to be a whole bunch of talk about nothing. Easy to get riled up if you just read that article or similar, but falls apart if you look deeper into it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

Covax is designed to allow self-financed countries such as Canada to purchase through the program. Canada is not stealing vaccines from lower income countries. The more countries that buy through it, the more purchasing power the alliance has overall.

From Gavi, one of the partners in Covax - COVAX explained

Separately, Canada has obviously done some things incorrectly as far as procuring doses, though I can't point a specific finger as to what that is. Canada currently sits near (at?) the bottom of developed countries in number of people/capita that have received the vaccine.
Click to expand...
I think JT did a few things wrong.

1) Underestimated the world's benevolence. Do you really think any country that can nationalize virus supplies would not do so until they have their population cared for?

2) Canadian Production. He gambled the country on CanSino, even invested a crap-ton of money into building production capability for them. AstraZ and Phizer were open to Canadian manufacturing, JT closed that before discussions started citing CanSino exclusivity.

Even a small business owner knows you never bet the farm on any single deal. Instead of hedging by purchasing full country quantities from everyone, he should have picked a couple of leaders and invested into domestic production capabilities.

3) He was not transparent in his dealings. Canadians, including the opposition, is still in the dark with respect to the terms of the deals that were cut.

4) The lead minister handling procurement is a very smart lady with a wall full of degrees. Outside of a couple of years articling as a lawyer, her work experience is limited to teaching and political appointments. Not saying she is incapable, but the fact that things are going roughly certainly makes one wonder.
 
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