The Official Election Thread

[eljay]

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What if I prefer to look after my family myself? Suppose we have our own standards and values that we live by as a family? and having our own resources taken would hinder that? Can I get an exemption from being charged to look after someone else's parents if I do a good job looking after my own family? Or is that unfair? Do you expect my family to lower our standards of living to keep some old dick fed pudding and having his diaper changed by temprorary foreign workers in a subsidized home?

So your solution is let them rot? What if they were your parents? They are someone's parents.

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[TD]"A society will be judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members"

Pope John Paul ll[/TD]
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And

It was once said that the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.
Hubert H. Humphrey, the Democratic presidential candidate who was defeated by republican "I am not a crook" Nixon.

 

[Riceburner]

IDK...my parents came here with a little bit. Worked their butts off, didn't do vacation yearly, etc. and can retire comfortably. Why should they have to "share" their gains with those that took it easy or were shortsighted and didn't save?

In the same vain, why should I be forced to pay into an Ont Pension Plan, when I've sacrificed to be able to save into my RSP...and pay into a RESP?

 

[Joe Bass]

I'm going to vote for the best looking guy. Might as well have a sexy leader.

I'm not running for office, sorry.

 

[eljay]

Because you and them are too rich and it's not fair so pay up or they'll send hordes of peasants to burn you out. It's awfully predictable. It happened in Russia nearly 100 years ago, then others and China and so on. Now shut up and embrace Utopia. You won't need money there so stop worrying about it now.

IDK...my parents came here with a little bit. Worked their butts off, didn't do vacation yearly, etc. and can retire comfortably. Why should they have to "share" their gains with those that took it easy or were shortsighted and didn't save?

In the same vain, why should I be forced to pay into an Ont Pension Plan, when I've sacrificed to be able to save into my RSP...and pay into a RESP?

 

[Schneller]

So, rice burner and eljay, your attitude is: I'm doing all right, screw the rest of you? Read my post about libertarianism. #61

That's my rebuttal to you.

Yes, there are some lazy loafers in there, but I'd suggest that it is basic human nature to do the best you can for your family. Then there are those who feel disenfranchised as I've said, who give up, but the majority do the best they can and it is circumstances beyond their control which have caused them to be destitute. You can't blame them for circumstances beyond their control.

It's not the barely comfortable middle class that should share their fortune, it is the lavishly wealthy and corporations, that need to pay their fair share of taxes. But the tax system is set up by the wealthy and corporations, through lobbying and influence peddling, so that there are loop holes that they can take advantage of and avoid contributing back into society in the form of taxes. That's where the problem lies, IMO.

 

[Riceburner]

They worked and paid their part into the "social pot" thru taxes, etc. Maybe if the gov't didn't waste billions....

I also know other families, that took their yearly vacations, have big screen TVs, new cars, etc. and just get by middle class. Should my parents have to support them later on?

I have no problem helping those in need that try to improve their lot by working for it.

 

[Red_Liner740]

If i knew that Ontario Pensions Plan was just what the name says, id probably be for it. But its not, its a tax grab NOW because Ontario is broke, and Liberals are scraping every idiotic plan together to try and raise revenue.

If Liberals promised and signed a document stating that money invested in Ontario Pension Plan was going to be untouched, invested in safe vessels id applaud the plan. But we know thats not true and that barrel is gonna have a hole as big as the opening at the top.

Even now CPP is assbackwards. Oh you were smart, invested in your RRSP's and made sure your retirement is secure? **** YOU!! NO CPP FOR YOU!! Thats right, go and try to apply for CPP, for the money that you invested in throughout your lifetime. If you show any sort of RRSP's or other retirement contributions you are uneligible to touch CPP until you blow through your own savings first.

In the end, Last several years Ontario has done nothing but come up with schemes to raise the cost of living in this province, HST, ORPP, Raising tax on gas, raising permits for vehicles, you name it, its gone up.

Id respect them if they came out and said "all our vote buying has made us broke, so you boys are gonna have to take it in the nuts", When i get gut punches i respect the person who looks me in the face as he does it, not hiding behind a fake smiling face saying "this is for your own good"

Oh and for all your "scandinavian countries are awesome!!", Homogenous population, small population, up to their eye balls in offshore oil money. No **** they can play good lil socialists when the country is doing well from drilling for oil.

Dont you feel a bit hypocritical giving Canada crap for natural resource extraction as you applaud the Scandinavian countries?

 

[Schneller]

Dont you feel a bit hypocritical giving Canada crap for natural resource extraction as you applaud the Scandinavian countries?

No. Nothing wrong with natural resource extraction if the bulk of the profits are invested for the citizens of the country the natural resources come from, as they have done in Norway. Has Canada done the same? No. The bulk of the profits went to private multinational oil companies. Who has been in charge this last decade?

alberta provincially: conservatives
canada nationally: conservatives

didnt P.E.Trudaeu have a national energy plan that was dismantled by the following conservative government? Conservative's are all about privatization. That's where the bulk of the profits go. In Norway, the energy sector is nationalized, as it should be, IMO.

 

[Schneller]

If i knew that Ontario Pensions Plan was just what the name says, id probably be for it. But its not, its a tax grab NOW because Ontario is broke, and Liberals are scraping every idiotic plan together to try and raise revenue.

If Liberals promised and signed a document stating that money invested in Ontario Pension Plan was going to be untouched, invested in safe vessels id applaud the plan. But we know thats not true and that barrel is gonna have a hole as big as the opening at the top.

I do not know what the rules for running this provincial pension plan are, and I don't think anyone does. There must be rules for pension plan schemes. I know there are for companies who do so. You're just assuming the worst with no factual backup on this specific topic.

 

[Riceburner]

Considering the Liberals past performance, that, would be my case against them.

 

[Schneller]

Considering the Liberals past performance, that, would be my case against them.

So you'll be voting Harper out due to his performance over the last 10 years? Did you read the globe and mail article linked in post 80?

 

[eljay]

Well if you're going to take it, why should I make it?
Sounds like I should just give up, close my eyes and fall back into the loving mesh of the safety net. Everyone should. Life would be awesome. No one would ever have to lift a finger again.
I wouldn't have to pay no more taxes. I wouldn't have to worry about my family. I'd wake every morning facing a fresh dawn with nothing to do but expand my vision. My parent and my children would revel in the ecstasy of knowing that I'll always be home and they will always be provided for. I hope motorcycle leases and insurance are free too. That'd be sick.

So, rice burner and eljay, your attitude is: I'm doing all right, screw the rest of you? Read my post about libertarianism. #61

That's my rebuttal to you.

Yes, there are some lazy loafers in there, but I'd suggest that it is basic human nature to do the best you can for your family. Then there are those who feel disenfranchised as I've said, who give up, but the majority do the best they can and it is circumstances beyond their control which have caused them to be destitute. You can't blame them for circumstances beyond their control.

It's not the barely comfortable middle class that should share their fortune, it is the lavishly wealthy and corporations, that need to pay their fair share of taxes. But the tax system is set up by the wealthy and corporations, through lobbying and influence peddling, so that there are loop holes that they can take advantage of and avoid contributing back into society in the form of taxes. That's where the problem lies, IMO.

 

[caboose56]

Dont you feel a bit hypocritical giving Canada crap for natural resource extraction as you applaud the Scandinavian countries?

This is among the things that irks me the most.

How those resources are managed is a key difference between Scandinavian countries and Canada.

Here they're sold off to private business and they reap the benefits of selling our natural resources. Norway specifically taxes those resources and the revenue is invested in a wealth fun. Knowing full well that those resources are finite the government is investing that revenue in establishing other economic revenue streams and domestic industries. How they manage their natural resource could be be any more different than how we manage ours.


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[crankcall]

The government has morphed over the last 150 yrs from an institution that helped control offshore investment, protect territories and establish foreign policy into a group that appeals to a majority of voters that are barely able to manage daily life let alone a retirement plan. Sure immigrants come here and do very well, they are accustomed to looking after themselves.
record consumer debt, not enough savings for retirements , mortgaged to the eyeballs. And we need tax concessions? no not really IMHO, what we need is a leadership group that understands support for Canadian manufacturing and export, controlled import to be sure Canadian manufacturing has a competitive shot and an effective prepared military to protect our Arctic claims.

Norway? really? the socialists can have the place.

 

[Schneller]

Well if you're going to take it, why should I make it?
Sounds like I should just give up, close my eyes and fall back into the loving mesh of the safety net. Everyone should. Life would be awesome. No one would ever have to lift a finger again.
I wouldn't have to pay no more taxes. I wouldn't have to worry about my family. I'd wake every morning facing a fresh dawn with nothing to do but expand my vision. My parent and my children would revel in the ecstasy of knowing that I'll always be home and they will always be provided for. I hope motorcycle leases and insurance are free too. That'd be sick.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you arguing against very wealthy individuals and corporations paying their fair share of taxes? Seriously?

Or

I assume you're working now and also paying taxes, right? But you're asking why should you bother to work if you have to pay taxes? Really? Serious question?

 

[caboose56]

Well if you're going to take it, why should I make it?
Sounds like I should just give up, close my eyes and fall back into the loving mesh of the safety net. Everyone should. Life would be awesome. No one would ever have to lift a finger again.
I wouldn't have to pay no more taxes. I wouldn't have to worry about my family. I'd wake every morning facing a fresh dawn with nothing to do but expand my vision. My parent and my children would revel in the ecstasy of knowing that I'll always be home and they will always be provided for. I hope motorcycle leases and insurance are free too. That'd be sick.

To be honest, this type of attitude would make it hard for you to make friends in these "Socialist Utopias".

Those socialist ideas won't work here because there are too many people who think like you do. Too many people that think socialism is the devil.

I've seen first hand how a hard working population can work together for common goals with a govt that supports them. Ive seen how a population that believes they all need to work hard in order for the country to prosper.

Here: I work hard, **** everyone else.

There: I work hard, we're all in this together.

Isn't this country great???


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[inreb]

This is among the things that irks me the most.

How those resources are managed is a key difference between Scandinavian countries and Canada.

Here they're sold off to private business and they reap the benefits of selling our natural resources. Norway specifically taxes those resources and the revenue is invested in a wealth fun. Knowing full well that those resources are finite the government is investing that revenue in establishing other economic revenue streams and domestic industries. How they manage their natural resource could be be any more different than how we manage ours.


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Yes, some rich guys are bad. It's a fact.

This is what I'm talking about some rich guys are bad. We're getting hosed in this country by bad rich guys. I'm not talking about some hard worker making a handsome living building decks or whatever. He shouldn't have to share any of it if he doesn't want to. It's the ***** running corporations and meddling in gov. that's screwing joe average. Sorry for the obvious post. Just mad is all

ps, not going to take it any more

pps, of course I will

 

[eljay]

Very serious. You are offering a solution to social ills, where those that have not will have. If I make myself have not, then I can have with infinitely less effort than otherwise. No brainer right?
If I work and have to pay taxes, which are used to pay people that don't work, wouldn't I be better off not working and paying taxes and better to be on the receiving end?
I mean I want the best for my family, but maybe the best is to do nothing at all? The harder I work, the more I will pay. So better to work less.

I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you arguing against very wealthy individuals and corporations paying their fair share of taxes? Seriously?

Or

I assume you're working now and also paying taxes, right? But you're asking why should you bother to work if you have to pay taxes? Really? Serious question?

 

[caboose56]

I mean I want the best for my family, but maybe the best is to do nothing at all? The harder I work, the more I will pay. So better to work less.

The harder you work the more you make. So better to work more.

No?


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[eljay]

I'm not sure anymore. If I could not have to work and still have all my needs met I think that would be easier no? I certainly wouldn't want to be in a position where I'm forced to reduce my standard of living just to make things fair.

The harder you work the more you make. So better to work more.

No?


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