You are correct -- the devices are equipped with GPS and an accelerometer.
So, the insurance black box monitors are here
- Thread starter Sunspark
- Start date
You are correct -- the devices are equipped with GPS and an accelerometer.
You contradict yourself -- you want to be rated on your own driving characteristics, yet you don't want a device that will report your driving characteristics to the insurer.
Roomie
Banned
No contradiction. I have a clean record. Doesn't mean I'm an angel 100% of the time I'm out. Means time and a place has worked out for me since 1994. Your black box would screw me just like a ticket. Insurance in Ontario is already a scam. There will never be any such device on any vehicle I own to help make the issue of people getting screwed over everyday worse.
Sent from my piss poor iPhone while sitting on my squidly gixxxxxxxxer sippin on kool aid
DownUnder
Well-known member
Out of curiosity, If someone does something stupid around you and you have to take evasive maneuvers to avoid a collision does it count against you (swerving/braking too hard)? Watched a kid on a skateboard ride straight across the road (not at an intersection) without looking and the car in front had to slam his brakes on to avoid killing him, would that car be penalized? The system seems flawed.
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
Your posts are falling woefully short of being convincing.
Exactly what data does the device capture?
Who owns the data? Us, the drivers? Can I ask for my data back? Will the insurance co. destroy it?
Who will have access to it? By collecting, processing, using, or disclosing the data to third parties, including the police, could the insurance company breach privacy legislation in Ontario?
Oh, I know... to protect their own @#$$, the insurance company will prepare a nice legal document for us to sign...
But really, what kind of insanely abusive legal contract would a client had to sign to get into this? Basically, the driver has to give up all his/her legal rights on a number of areas...
Also, what kind of data repository will be created? And who could abuse it, or hack into it, to profit by selling the information in the internet?
This sucks...
I see this as a fundamental problem with any "black box" type gizmo that comes short of full video surveillance of the surroundings - but even if *that* were to be done, who is going to go through the video footage and decide whether a particular action was justified or not?
I did some "ruff estimating" today and it's fair to say that I am somewhere near both the acceleration and deceleration thresholds when coming to a stop and accelerating away from a stop almost all the time. And that is just during normal driving, nevermind the yellow-light scenarios or the kid on skateboard scenarios. And that is while driving an economy car.
Correlation with collisions? The only auto claim in recent memory involved the car getting hit when it was legally parked in a Timmies. And I was in a motorcycle collision in Tennessee in which a woman turned left in front of me while I was travelling very close to the posted 35 mph speed limit. That's it.
If insurance rates start to drastically drop because of these, hooking up a GPS emulator and OBDii emulator to "drive" your car around in safe neigbhourhoods between 10:00 and 14:00 won't be far behind. Then the companies will abandon the devices (like alladvantage paying you to watch ads while you used your computer, emulators were available almost immediately and alladvantage was bankrupt within a year [good money went to the participants during that year though]).
They would allow the occasional hard braking maneuver according to an article I read. But if you're "emergency braking" once a day then they'll probably conclude that you're an aggressive driver.
Its called fraud... genius
GPS signals are VERY difficult to generate. You could "record" a route say to/from work, drive flawless speed limit, super smooth braking and acceleration, then just "play it back" every time you drive to work. That's the only way I could see any emulation type of device working.
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I just had another thought today. It wouldn't be hard for the insurance company to add an algorithm that detects accidents (ie. acceleration >1g followed by a period of not moving). That would give them data on how many fender-benders go unreported. As they would have difficulty proving an accident happened, I don't know if this could affect rates, but it could definitely help their data on accidents within a postal code.
Give me a box and I'll figure it out lol
Of course, any legal actions taken against you due to firmware flashes or other crap etc. etc. are your own responsibility and not mine!
Fender benders aren't likely to involve forces above one g. Probably almost every crash of that magnitude gets reported.
I just picked an example, but you are right, the line between hard braking and light crash could be too thin to pick out. At 5 km/h, dropping to 0 in 0.25 seconds (estimate for fender bender) is only 2/3 g. You can numbers in that ballpark to that with just brakes.
The detection would have to rely more on spikes in the data or high g forces followed by hanging out in the centre of the road for 5 minutes.
starboy869
Well-known member
I could very well see not installing one of these devices insurance rates goes up 50% or even dropped. Then your only option is high risk. You could always pull the no insurance route, but that's another hassle in itself.
I for one i'm for this device. For the amount I ride and how I ride would be perfect for me all except my 401/402/407 cruising speed is generally around 115. Btw thank you waze gps and user reporting police traps.
I for one i'm for this device. For the amount I ride and how I ride would be perfect for me all except my 401/402/407 cruising speed is generally around 115. Btw thank you waze gps and user reporting police traps.
How is this not a contradiction? VifferFun is absolutely correct. You state that insurance companies should base rates on individual characteristics but you don't want to install a device to measure individual characteristics?
And if insurance companies don't base rates on demographics, how would they estimate how much premiums to charge??? I mean, on average, teenage males (20s) do drive/ride more aggressively than males in their 40's, for example. Therefore, premiums would be higher for ALL teenage males.
Roomie
Banned
Basing insurance on an individual wouldn't require any device. I have a clean record. Why should I pay high insurance because I choose to ride a sport bike? Hate to break it to you but ontario insurance is a total rip off. Explain to my why with the same company and same record that a busa in Calgary would have cost me just under 1k a year and then I come here and they want north of 4k? Your record should be included in this "demographic rate" that they use. There's no reason why a guy or girl in their mid 20's should be paying 3-4k for a ninja 250. They bike is barely worth that. But hey, the insurance guy is correct. I'm a contradiction and the insurance companies are just looking out for people's best interests. 
My point isn't whether insurance in Ontario are a rip off or not.
Maybe more accidents happen in Ontario than compared to Calgary for guys and girls in their mid 20s? That's why insurance companies charge higher.
So you're saying that everyone with a clean record should be charged 1k, 1 minor conviction would be higher, then 2 minors would be even higher still? Is that correct?
Maybe more accidents happen in Ontario than compared to Calgary for guys and girls in their mid 20s? That's why insurance companies charge higher.
So you're saying that everyone with a clean record should be charged 1k, 1 minor conviction would be higher, then 2 minors would be even higher still? Is that correct?
