So, the insurance black box monitors are here

[VifferFun]

Your posts are falling woefully short of being convincing.



Exactly what data does the device capture?
Who owns the data? Us, the drivers? Can I ask for my data back? Will the insurance co. destroy it?

Who will have access to it? By collecting, processing, using, or disclosing the data to third parties, including the police, could the insurance company breach privacy legislation in Ontario?

Oh, I know... to protect their own @#$$, the insurance company will prepare a nice legal document for us to sign...

But really, what kind of insanely abusive legal contract would a client had to sign to get into this? Basically, the driver has to give up all his/her legal rights on a number of areas...

Also, what kind of data repository will be created? And who could abuse it, or hack into it, to profit by selling the information in the internet?

This sucks...

Valid concerns, good questions, and I won't pretend to have the answers for all of this. Anecdotally, my understanding is that the data is collected and aggregated by the third-party telematics provider. I believe I recall hearing something about the data being destroyed as soon as the client opts out of the program. I haven't read the legal contract yet as it's still being written and subject to approval by FSCO.

The program is (and probably always will be) completely optional.

 

[VifferFun]

If insurance rates start to drastically drop because of these, hooking up a GPS emulator and OBDii emulator to "drive" your car around in safe neigbhourhoods between 10:00 and 14:00 won't be far behind. Then the companies will abandon the devices (like alladvantage paying you to watch ads while you used your computer, emulators were available almost immediately and alladvantage was bankrupt within a year [good money went to the participants during that year though]).

AllAdvantage -- I remember that! I actually got some pretty nice paycheques from that in its heyday

 

[VifferFun]

Basing insurance on an individual wouldn't require any device. I have a clean record. Why should I pay high insurance because I choose to ride a sport bike? Hate to break it to you but ontario insurance is a total rip off. Explain to my why with the same company and same record that a busa in Calgary would have cost me just under 1k a year and then I come here and they want north of 4k? Your record should be included in this "demographic rate" that they use. There's no reason why a guy or girl in their mid 20's should be paying 3-4k for a ninja 250. They bike is barely worth that. But hey, the insurance guy is correct. I'm a contradiction and the insurance companies are just looking out for people's best interests.

Alberta and Ontario are nothign the same with respect to the frequency and severity of claims. I set the rate for both Ontario and Alberta, using the exact same methodologies and profit margins. Most companies that provide insurance in Ontario are the same companies that provide insurance in Alberta.

Your record is a component of your demographic rate. There are 10+ rating variables used to determine your premium, and age is just one of them. I posted a sticky a while back explaining this if you're interested.

 

[awdmig]

The moment you touch the accelerator you will be deemed aggressive, the screws will be that tight one day and this is just the infrastructure being laid out.

 

[Riceburner]

Anyone think a business is going to give you a "discount" cutting their profits? If anything they will raise the costs for everyone and those deemed "at risk" will pay that and those that are due a "discount" will end up paying the same thing they did before.

 

[Flywheel]

The black boxes are already here, just not where you expected them. From the Internet: "The OPP say 27 new cars — eight in the Greater Toronto Area — will be equipped with back- and forward-facing cameras mounted on police vehicles and able to scan two licence plates per second. The camera instantly sends plate information to an onboard computer, alerting the officer when a driver with a suspended licence is found."

It's not a stretch to correlate the plate, gps coordinates and thus relative speed. That tech can't be cheap and that juicy database, growing by the day, is going to be worth a lot of money to insurers. Sleep tight!

 

[geoff-9]

The black boxes are already here, just not where you expected them. From the Internet: "The OPP say 27 new cars — eight in the Greater Toronto Area — will be equipped with back- and forward-facing cameras mounted on police vehicles and able to scan two licence plates per second. The camera instantly sends plate information to an onboard computer, alerting the officer when a driver with a suspended licence is found."

It's not a stretch to correlate the plate, gps coordinates and thus relative speed. That tech can't be cheap and that juicy database, growing by the day, is going to be worth a lot of money to insurers. Sleep tight!

Toronto police have had these for years, nothing new, they also do a bunch of other things like stolen vehicles etc

 

[awyala]

Recall the case of Paul Walker in the news recently...anyone notice that they stated they were investigating the black box telemetry?

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-paul-walker-crash-troubled-article-1.1536644

"He said the car has a “black box” that should be able to reveal the speed the car was traveling prior to the crash, whether the driver was accelerating or trying to apply the brakes and whether the car’s airbags worked properly.

“It’s a black box located in the tunnel by the transmission, so there shouldn’t be a problem with it surviving the collision,” McClellan said. “It has a proprietary encryption, so I imagine investigators will have to get some special help and equipment to be able to download and interpret the results. It might take some time.”

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This will be built into your car as standard and you wont even know it.

 

[GreyGhost]

Recall the case of Paul Walker in the news recently...anyone notice that they stated they were investigating the black box telemetry?

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...-paul-walker-crash-troubled-article-1.1536644

"He said the car has a “black box” that should be able to reveal the speed the car was traveling prior to the crash, whether the driver was accelerating or trying to apply the brakes and whether the car’s airbags worked properly.

“It’s a black box located in the tunnel by the transmission, so there shouldn’t be a problem with it surviving the collision,” McClellan said. “It has a proprietary encryption, so I imagine investigators will have to get some special help and equipment to be able to download and interpret the results. It might take some time.”

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This will be built into your car as standard and you wont even know it.

I was under the impression that many cars already had them. Unless someone's dies, it is not worth the police time required to get the data out.

 

[awyala]

I was under the impression that many cars already had them. Unless someone's dies, it is not worth the police time required to get the data out.

That's just a matter of new insurance legislation or a firmware update. There is no need for your average citizen driver to opt in to a program.

 

[Aslan]

I was under the impression that many cars already had them. Unless someone's dies, it is not worth the police time required to get the data out.

Indeed, it is old news. http://www.airbagcrash.com/ http://www.crashforensics.com/automobiledatarecorders.cfm

A quote from the first link:
•
Are General Motors vehicles the only cars that have a EDR / event data recorder / black box?
No, based on a directive by the NTSB, almost all vehicles sold in North America since 1997 are recording some type of vehicle crash data. These include Toyota, Mercedes Benz, and Mitsubishi vehicles to name a few.
NTSB Directive:
"Develop and implement, in conjunction with the domestic and international manufacturers. A plan to gather better information on crash pulses and other crash parameters in actual crashes, utilizing current or augmented sensing and recording devices."

 

[rorider]

Get ready for 24/7 surveillance of pretty much everything we do from the way we drive to our online activity. And no one will do anything about it. We're too busy worrying about the next iPhone or the next bike we'll be getting with our hard earned savings.

 

[DDean]

Just be happy that you're still able to drive what you want. Within our lifetimes, I suspect that driving will be automated and all of us will be passengers.