Shooting in Connecticut

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mmmnaked said:
No, I don't want them to do anything. Schools in the USA are perfectly safe, and calls for "doing something" in the wake of that massacre in CT are emotional, illogical, and unreasonable.
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I agree completely, was just arguing how silly the NRA argument is. I do feel that there is a need for discussion on american gun regulation. Just brushing it aside as they do after each one of these tragedies is not the right answer. Jon Stewart had a good bit about the right time to discuss gun control

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/stewart-slams-fox-it-never-being-right-tim

The US government has broken it's ties to the alcohol and tobacco lobbyist groups, it's time they did the same with the gun groups and had a real discussion
 
regder said:
I agree completely, was just arguing how silly the NRA argument is. I do feel that there is a need for discussion on american gun regulation. Just brushing it aside as they do after each one of these tragedies is not the right answer. Jon Stewart had a good bit about the right time to discuss gun control

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/stewart-slams-fox-it-never-being-right-tim

The US government has broken it's ties to the alcohol and tobacco lobbyist groups, it's time they did the same with the gun groups and had a real discussion
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I feel the NRA shouldn't have made a statement at all. Or if they really had to, they could've just expressed sorrow for the victims and moved on.


HOWEVER, their argument for putting armed guards in schools would, in my opinion, be more effective than some "gun ban". I also think that anyone who calls them loony, but backs a gun ban, is retarded. You're chastising the NRA for suggesting something which would technically make schools safer. I don't see why it's "crazy".
 
gwelfmike said:
I was in NYC two years after 9/11, I saw a cop on every corner, and I was standing beside one and said to him, "Makes me feel safe having a cop on every corner", he just looked at me and without an expression on his face, just said, " Makes you wonder who really won, we are now prisoners in our own city?"
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To me, their reasons for wanting to be armed are irrelevant. The benefits of the general citizenry being armed are obvious. If they feel they need guns for self-defense, their funeral for living in such a country. I just don't feel that the police and the army should be the only bodies of people with the means to defend themselves. I've seen both use force to corrupt the democratic process. We have a good thing going here and now but you never know what the future may bring. Things can go south fast
 
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crankcall said:
This is exactly why the Americans will have a heck of a time straightening this out. In the Southwest where i shoot its not uncommon to meet a guy with a Mcmillan Tac hunting coyotes , at that point I guess its a hunting rifle ( made in pheonix arizona). The newest medium range sniper guns, ,.338 are very popular with varmit hunters, long desert shots. All are bolt action.
You can hunt with a machine gun someplaces, every state has there own rules, you can have an M16 with a 30round clip and be hunting in GA, TX or AZ ,
currently in AZ you need to find an automatic made and registered prior to 1986. Local sherriff will herlp you get paperwork with BATF, they seem to support to idea. A modified A15 or an M16 sells for about 8k right now and they sell quickly.

It wont matter what anybody declares to be the correct term to be coined , eventually they may see a federal legislation, but probably not in our lifetime. West of the Mississippi except for California no one cares. And south of the Mason/Dixon line isnt a lot different.
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I've never seen a 30 round clip. I've seen 10 round clips, I've seen belt fed ammo and I've seen 5+ round magazines. Where can one find one?
 
mmmnaked said:
That's gonna sail over his head..
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And to think that most people writing laws restricting things are just as clueless about them :shock:
 
backmarkerducati said:
So decay into semantics about slang to show a ban is not justified? BTW I read magazines....
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I read hockey magazines but the NHL never invited me to their panel of experts on rules change. Bottom line: If you can't tell a difference between EFI and carbs, maybe you should leave bike design to those who do.
 
backmarkerducati said:
Next for the assault weapons "AR15 style guns", no more sold, no resale (you have what you have). You need a special transport permit to have the gun anywhere but the range or your home. Takes away the day to day usefulness of the gun and most of the fun of ownership.
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Describe what you mean by an AR15 style gun? The look or the function?

I can legally go buy a gun that looks exactly like my rifle from work. The way something looks should not effect if it is legal or not. The physical qualities and capabilities, however, should be the only determining factor.
If the barrel and over all length meets the minimum, the action is either single shot or semi-auto with a max of 5 round capacity (for anything over a .22) then it really shouldn't matter how much black plastic is on the gun.

The worst part of this whole debate is the non gun users who don't understand why they are important to people in this society and the function they play... It's like people who think all of us on two wheels participate in some dangerous, irresponsible and senseless activity when all of us that actually have the passion see the positive sides to it.
 
rmemedic said:
Describe what you mean by an AR15 style gun? The look or the function?

I can legally go buy a gun that looks exactly like my rifle from work. The way something looks should not effect if it is legal or not. The physical qualities and capabilities, however, should be the only determining factor.
If the barrel and over all length meets the minimum, the action is either single shot or semi-auto with a max of 5 round capacity (for anything over a .22) then it really shouldn't matter how much black plastic is on the gun.

The worst part of this whole debate is the non gun users who don't understand why they are important to people in this society and the function they play... It's like people who think all of us on two wheels participate in some dangerous, irresponsible and senseless activity when all of us that actually have the passion see the positive sides to it.
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Nicely put
 
Exactly. The look has nothing to do with it. This country is already ridiculous -- like when they banned a 22LR AK47 lookalike.

These two guns are exactly the same -- just a .22 caliber Ruger 22/10 -- should one be banned and the other not?:
http://modernsurvivalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/ruger_banner.jpg


rmemedic said:
Describe what you mean by an AR15 style gun? The look or the function?

I can legally go buy a gun that looks exactly like my rifle from work. The way something looks should not effect if it is legal or not. The physical qualities and capabilities, however, should be the only determining factor.
If the barrel and over all length meets the minimum, the action is either single shot or semi-auto with a max of 5 round capacity (for anything over a .22) then it really shouldn't matter how much black plastic is on the gun.

The worst part of this whole debate is the non gun users who don't understand why they are important to people in this society and the function they play... It's like people who think all of us on two wheels participate in some dangerous, irresponsible and senseless activity when all of us that actually have the passion see the positive sides to it.
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mmmnaked said:
That's gonna sail over his head..
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No not really...... I'm one of those unfortunates that while pretty wrong always just called a magazine a clip. Must be hollywood propoganda. I get that the clip is the metal strip that holds cartidges that slides into the magazine. Original idea on the speedloader. And we can go all evening about en-bloc and garand and lots of terminology ect. But then you guys dont get to be smug.
 
crankcall said:
No not really...... I'm one of those unfortunates that while pretty wrong always just called a magazine a clip. Must be hollywood propoganda. I get that the clip is the metal strip that holds cartidges that slides into the magazine. Original idea on the speedloader. And we can go all evening about en-bloc and garand and lots of terminology ect. But then you guys dont get to be smug.
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I was just trying to point out that just because someone starts to call something by a certain name, it does not mean that is what it actually is.


clip/magazine, AR-15/assualt Rifle, SAW/semi automatic weapon- A lot of people do not know there is a difference. Movies the internet and news reports do not help.


P.S. Merry Christmas to all
 
Oh boy , I wanna be armed with a nuclear bomb, maybe a couple of tanks and a couple of fighter jets, that would take care of clips, magazines or any other miss information we are having.





FiReSTaRT said:
To me, their reasons for wanting to be armed are irrelevant. The benefits of the general citizenry being armed are obvious. If they feel they need guns for self-defense, their funeral for living in such a country. I just don't feel that the police and the army should be the only bodies of people with the means to defend themselves. I've seen both use force to corrupt the democratic process. We have a good thing going here and now but you never know what the future may bring. Things can go south fast
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bigguy1 said:
I was just trying to point out that just because someone starts to call something by a certain name, it does not mean that is what it actually is.


clip/magazine, AR-15/assualt Rifle, SAW/semi automatic weapon- A lot of people do not know there is a difference. Movies the internet and news reports do not help.


P.S. Merry Christmas to all
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I know what you where pointing out, I find the " pile on" amusing. its a pretty common conotation especially with ex military for some reason. Since we (my wife and I ) live part time in the US its where most of my jargon is picked up.

Thanks and Merry Christmas to you to.
 
Diesel said:
Exactly. The look has nothing to do with it. This country is already ridiculous -- like when they banned a 22LR AK47 lookalike.
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Even worse.. They ended up confiscating air rifles that were built using spare AK-47 parts but were modified up to the point where it would have been easier to build an AK-47 from scratch than to turn one into a functional AK.
 
rmemedic said:
Describe what you mean by an AR15 style gun? The look or the function?

I can legally go buy a gun that looks exactly like my rifle from work. The way something looks should not effect if it is legal or not. The physical qualities and capabilities, however, should be the only determining factor.
If the barrel and over all length meets the minimum, the action is either single shot or semi-auto with a max of 5 round capacity (for anything over a .22) then it really shouldn't matter how much black plastic is on the gun.

The worst part of this whole debate is the non gun users who don't understand why they are important to people in this society and the function they play... It's like people who think all of us on two wheels participate in some dangerous, irresponsible and senseless activity when all of us that actually have the passion see the positive sides to it.
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Two identical mechnisms but one looks like it's big trouble. Are we talking about guns or the lawyers, accountants, ministers etc that play dress up and ride their bad azz V twins for shitz and giggles. Why do people pay for replica sports bikes? Why do people want to dress up like commandos to hunt gophers? I guess if they're bad shot the gopher will die laughing.

There has to be something about the psychology of a sheep in wolf's clothing attitude that tweeks the brain.
 
came across this interesting youtube clip re: gun bans in England.
[video=youtube;GfTzPfdzFBY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTzPfdzFBY[/video]
 
BusaBob said:
came across this interesting youtube clip re: gun bans in England.
[video=youtube;GfTzPfdzFBY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfTzPfdzFBY[/video]
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That propaganda is outdated. The fact is gun violence spiked immediately after the ban and it has since declined to levels below where it was when the ban was imposed.

UK%2520trends%2520by%2520weapon.png


This graph shows gun crime stats in England and Wales from 2000-2010. The same pattern applies to homicide rates and a variety of other crime stats in the UK. Check it out for yourself here (download data table);
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public.../research-statistics/crime-research/hosb0212/

Here's a graph of the homicide rate (per million) in the UK in the past 45 years.

UK%2520homicide%2520rate.png


The red lines indicate points in time when new gun restrictions were legislated. In the first case ( 1988 ) semi-auto long guns were severely restricted. There is no noticeable change that registers in the homicide rate. The next one is 1998 when handguns were outright banned, and after the sharp increase in homicides, they begin to decrease steadily for the first time since records were kept. This difference in the impact between the two laws could possibly be explained by the fact that handguns are far more commonly used to commit crimes in the UK than long guns, as the first graph shows.

Now if we're going to be honest for a second, the fact is that the correlation between the gun laws and fluctuation in the homicide rate does not mean causation. But, since you so eagerly posted that propagandist crap about the increase in UK violence at one point in time, then you either believe the causal relation yourself, or you were being disingenuous. Hopefully it's the former, in which case this new evidence should have you convinced that all handguns should be banned. Right?
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