J_F
Guest
#BeBest #FLOTUS #POTUS~POS
Scheer resigns
- Thread starter bigpoppa
- Start date
#BeBest #FLOTUS #POTUS~POS
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I think that is my point, revert back to pre-EU times, keep free trade, keep open borders for EU citizens to travel. The UK unloads the heavy financial load of EU bureaucracy and regulation, regains control of it's agricultural policies and borders.
The UK also has a special relationship with the US, they will be free to cement a UK/US trade deal without EU interference.
Why would the EU reward the UK for being idiots when they are petrified of Italy and Greece doing the same.
wtf is that? Never seen it happen yet have you?
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Greece and Italy exits create a huge threat to the EU, member states AND a huge threat to the exiting states. The same currency, debt default, and mass refugee migration are not part of the brexit hangover.
The likelihood of a poor indebted country leaving the EU is slim. They do the same as QC, sabre rattle to extract concessions, but like QC they always lose courage when they get close to unplugging their life support.
The likelihood of a poor indebted country leaving the EU is slim. They do the same as QC, sabre rattle to extract concessions, but like QC they always lose courage when they get close to unplugging their life support.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Agree. Also, restricting the UK doesn't involve mucking with the Euro as the UK never relinquished their currency. Those other countries would exit to regain sovereignty over their currency. Doing so would include a debt default that would collapse the Euro and the key or central bank's of many EU countries. That's day one. After that the departing countries plunge into crippling devaluation, recession and inflation. On day 3 the economic migration begins.
Bottom line is the existing EU countries are in a cement box together. The UK exit is work, but not all that disruptive. Greece, Italy or Spain exits would turn Europe upside down.
The issue isn't the currency, it's freedom of travel within the eurozone and freedom to trade and also the underlying atmosphere in the country.
I think Nissan already pulled out of setting up a major assembly centre in the UK because of Brexit worries. They won't be the last either. Any hint whatsoever of anything changing at the Northern Irish border will cause mayhem and potentially kick off old and festering issues. If Europe imposes tit-for-tat travel restrictions for UK citizens and enforces various residency requirements for various jobs/housing then there's going to be a lot of very angry people too. I have friends that have worked in France most of their lives in teaching and government positions that have legitimate concerns that their positions were/are only open to EU citizens. Foreign citizens working in the UK are already worried about what this means for them too. Many because of the overt racism they are now experiencing because of what Brexit really means to a rabid few mouthbreathing locals. Some highly qualified personnel are leaving or have plans to leave. I know of world leaders in various fields that are looking to move and will take their expertise with them.
I think Nissan already pulled out of setting up a major assembly centre in the UK because of Brexit worries. They won't be the last either. Any hint whatsoever of anything changing at the Northern Irish border will cause mayhem and potentially kick off old and festering issues. If Europe imposes tit-for-tat travel restrictions for UK citizens and enforces various residency requirements for various jobs/housing then there's going to be a lot of very angry people too. I have friends that have worked in France most of their lives in teaching and government positions that have legitimate concerns that their positions were/are only open to EU citizens. Foreign citizens working in the UK are already worried about what this means for them too. Many because of the overt racism they are now experiencing because of what Brexit really means to a rabid few mouthbreathing locals. Some highly qualified personnel are leaving or have plans to leave. I know of world leaders in various fields that are looking to move and will take their expertise with them.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Change is never easy, nor is democracy or diplomacy. All will be at work over the next little while as the UK and EU organize themselves for Brexit.
The UK is a democracy so it's people have a right to determine their future. Brexit has been taken to the voting poles a number of times, the latest resulting in a clear mandate to proceed. Those opposed will have some ideological losses, but the majority believes they will be better off without the EU membership -- I prefer to wait and see how adept the UK government is at leading change before forecasting the fall of the sky.
Chris-CJ
Well-known member
Brexit
Agreed, that observation makes sense.
We, in Canada are on the outside looking in and it is the person on the ground that makes the preference.
Note, it is the labor prominent areas that most showed the renewal of the Brexit wish. Perhaps it was the fear of foreign workers taking jobs that motivated the vote.
In Canada there has been a sustained though unseen creep towards outsourcing (and I am not talking about coffee shop or farm workers) and yet there has been no backlash. Corporations are looking for the "cheap" and politicians in power shy away from crossing the Corps.
Scheer's replacement
Back to the main purpose of this thread, hopefully the "replacement" is a person of substance.
JT's directives to his minister's of portfolio contain action items that will cost, but there is nothing said on how these items will be funded and neither is there any indication towards reducing the deficit and balancing the budget.
A strong opposition, will hopefully ask the right questions.
caveat: I am party neutral and it is the results that speak to me.
"four wheels good, two wheels better"
I think it is pretty clear at this point that funding/balancing/reducing is so far down the JT's list of priorities that they may as well not exist. He has always had infinite resources and runs the country the same way. When that type of person runs out of money, they have no idea how to behave as they have never said no in their entire life.
Sadly we have no mechanism to enforce spending commensurate with incoming revenue at the federal level (and doubt we will ever get something as each party wants their turn with the bottomless cookie jar).
That was a general election not a referendum that also said a lot about how unpopular Corbyn was. The only clear cut message came from Scotland where the SNP has one overall goal. There's never actually been a clear mandate to actually leave. It very much is a practically 50:50 split, the worst possible outcome for a democratic decision, you are guaranteed to piss off 50% of the people no matter what you do.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
In a parliamentary democracy, a majority get a mandate if it was a campaign plank as long as they can pass a confidence vote. The losing side might not like them rules -- but that's how it's designed to work. By all accounts "Get Brexit Done" was the central issue to the recent vote.
Why labour did so poorly? Maybe an unlikable leader, but by all accounts I have read they failed under pressure. A murky platform position and lack failure to decisively address the key election issue.
Brexit fatigue too. Unfortunately the very reason the issue was dragging on so long was because it's so important, sadly Corbyn's sensible neutral idea regarding Brexit just meant more waiting which the impatient did not want. I fear the brits will now reap what they have sown. My working background that enabled me to get plumb jobs was because I was able to travel and work freely in Europe. It's something that I encourage everyone to do when I can (go and work in a different cultural and professional environment). This is now going to be harder to do for Brits in Europe and perhaps the other way round too.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Sadly this is the failing of leftist parties -- they are reluctant to be decisive on
That's hard to say whether UK citizens will be free in the EU. Before 2000 when there was no EU, until they hammer out the deal/no deal issues between the EU and UK. there was fairly free movement across the Schengen, there is no reason for the EU or UK to restrict this (other than to be spiteful).
I think the biggest issue at the moment if fear of the unknown. In a situation like this the parties should not be looking for win/win -- they need to find a way out that isn't lose/lose.
J_F
Guest
problem is
the UK does not support Brexit
only England does
and only certain parts of England
the other UK constituents want nothing to do with it
didn't vote for it
and I think another Brexit referendum would be a NO
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are part of the United Kingdom, they vote together with England. Just like AB, BC, MB and SK want nothing to do with Trudeau and his merry clan, they get what the central Canada decides is best for the country. I can understand how alienating that must feel.
But just like the those Canadian provinces, the the UK union is necessary because neither Scotland, Wales or N. Ireland could survive as independent sovereign nations.
One could argue an election mandate in the UK's 'first past the post' system will never be as effective as a referendum, but that's moot as a referendum was already done.
any referendum that uses 50% plus 1 as its line in the sand is a badly designed one.
