RIP Amy Winehouse

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El Zilcho said:
You people who bash all the addicts don't seem to realize why and how addicts end up where they are. Sure, some of them end up addicted out of ignorance or arrogance, but in many cases drugs are the only way out these people see out their daily misery. By the time they end up worse off it's too late for them to just quit.

I can't imagine why you are so tough on these people. If you think you can handle all the hardship that live can throw at you, I sure do hope you are not proven wrong the really hard way...
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I'm not bashing addicts, and I'm not "so tough" on these people. I'm only expecting from them what I expect from everyone, without excuses. We screw up, we fall down. We make mistakes and bad choices. Sometimes, we ruin our own lives. That happens to each of us. All I'm saying is that it's not my DNA's fault.

As for handling the hardships that life has thrown at me, I take it one day at a time, like everyone else. So far I haven't had to resort to drugs as a coping mechanism. And I haven't even won 5 grammies yet. Maybe Ms. Winehouse's life was a lot harder than mine. That's entirely possible. It still doesn't excuse the whole world for watching her kill herself as if it was some kind of show. If you care about the addict, don't participate in their addiction.
 
Bandit Bill said:
Another crack-head junkie dead, who coincidently was a celebrity. Whoop-de-freaking-doo. I think that even Stevie Wonder could have seen this coming from a mile away.

Like really? On the same day that the Norwegian massacre has occured, and this self-destructive, 20-something, self-absorbed British addict is threatening to over-shadow that true tragedy in terms of media exposure.

I see this as just one more indicative barometer of our collective misplaced priorities, in one helluva screwed up world.

I perhaps feel sorry for those that tried to throw her a rope out of the sewer that she threw herself into, but not for her. She had a far better chance, and far better resources, than 95% out there in her same sort of situation with addiction issues, with the resources and support that she had available to her. She chose to keep sucking the pipe, and jabbing the needles, instead of availing herself to the help. Live fast, die young.

Amy Whitehouse, Rehab



10 weeks in rehab, vs an uncertain life-time on drugs. She chose the path that she wanted to follow, and even wrote a song about that choice.. one hell of a bad choice recorded for posterity/as an epitaph, if you should ask me..

Sorry, but i really find it hard to have much in the way of sympathy here. I'd much prefer to reserve it for situations and events, that truly deserve it.
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+1. ESP the part about it overshadowing the massacre. Now THAT is sad.
 
oilycreek said:
I call BS, you seem to know very little about addiction, and if you were treating addiction as a choice rather then a disease, you were a part of the problem not the solution. I would feel sorry for anyone you counselled.
Addiction has been a part of my life since 2005. drug addiction has affected my life since 2005, one of my kids is an addict so I have had to understand addiction and the affects of addiction, and how to deal with addicts. She unknowingly got addicted to drugs, as some dirt bag was giving friends cigarettes laced with crack I found out he had done this to many teenagers, when he was arrested he turned informant and wasn't charged with ****, typical garbage.
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Yeah, unknowingly eh? LOL.... I have heard it alllllll before...

oilycreek said:
I want my kids looking up to her as a person, and learning from her. I don't want my kids to discriminate against anyone for any reason.
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LMAO..... Are you serious? You want your kids looking up to a junkie that ultimately killed herself..... That pretty much clinches it for me...
 
El Zilcho said:
I have spent 0 years there and I have more compassion for these people than you... That's about me.
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Congratulations.... and that proves what?
 
El Zilcho said:
You people who bash all the addicts don't seem to realize why and how addicts end up where they are. Sure, some of them end up addicted out of ignorance or arrogance, but in many cases drugs are the only way out these people see out their daily misery. By the time they end up worse off it's too late for them to just quit.

I can't imagine why you are so tough on these people. If you think you can handle all the hardship that live can throw at you, I sure do hope you are not proven wrong the really hard way...
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More excuses.... I have seen plenty of people with crappy lives go on to do wondrous things and never become addicted to drugs, and then use their daily misery as an excuse...
Keep making the excuses.... keep on makin' em....
 
Duster929 said:
As for handling the hardships that life has thrown at me, I take it one day at a time, like everyone else. So far I haven't had to resort to drugs as a coping mechanism.
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It may be hard to realize that most of the world's population lives in poverty when everyone around you manages to put food on the table. In the same way it may seem to you that the obvious way to handle life's obstacles is to deal with them "one day at a time", but there are people who live without any hope for anything better in the future. Who's there to give them the strength to act despite the lack of hope? It's a lot easier to deal with just about anything when you have the shred of faith that you'll get out of it. Hopelessness is hell. I wish no one to ever experience it.
 
At this point, I have read the whole thread...

To be honest I dont sit here and categorize whos lives are more important then others, I see a loss of a human life as a tradegy, whether self inflicted or not, she is someones daughter, and its a loss of a very young life, that had some obvious talent and ability to go somewhere. Regardless of this as another human being, I do feel sympathy for the fact that she is now no longer living.

RIP

Jenn
 
Bandit Bill said:
As for the opportunities that they are limited to, that is more a consequence of societal marginalization, then any given afflicted individual's overall limitations. The phrase 'last to hire, first to fire' comes to mind, very handily. We as a society limit their chances in the world at large, in spite of any 'human rights' equality that they may have, or any moves towards de-institutionalization and integration into society that have been made here in Ontario in the past 20 years. Fact. A developmentally disadvantaged individual has a surprising ability to adapt, given supports and a chance.

Bottom line - it's a poor analogy. An individual with Down's Syndrome didn't choose their affliction. However, those that pick up a crack-pipe, or start cranking shots down a vein, at some point made a choice to enter into that life-style. Those that choose not to avail themselves of the supports available, and make the necessary life changes to kick that addiction, have only themselves to blame. Sympathy is unearned, if that addicted individual doesn't make an effort to correct their own bad choices in life.
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You bring up a good point, Bill, but I said I wasn't willing to accept alcoholism as a disease. I am willing to accept being depressed as an affliction and it's definitely not something that you choose to be. And a good portion of drug addicts and alcoholics also tend to be depressed. It's a well-known fact that drugs and alcohol are coping mechanisms for a lot of people. And if you guys can't understand that some cope with stress better than others, then there really isn't much that I can do. My point about addictive personalities also still stands.

Duster929 said:
And let's not forget something important. Amy Winehouse was not retarded. Folks seem to think she was an intelligent, talented woman. When did we start believing that intelligent, talented women lose their ability to exercise their free will because of their genetic history?
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A lot of the craziest people were/are intelligent as hell. Some of the people most prone to depression are geniuses. Some of the weakest stress copers were prodigies who broke under pressure. Even if you want to take this stuff out of it...how many intelligent people become stupid 'cause of love? An intelligent person isn't always able to exercise free will, although lots do every day. But I suppose you can argue that they aren't intelligent to begin with...

SlowNLow said:
I spent 15 years as an addiction counsellor at the Clarke Institute of Psychiatry and then the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health after the 4 centre merger in '98.....

How's about you? hmmmm????
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Tbh, I wanted to call bs after his posts...but I can see it de-sensitizing someone. My old career path was in social work...I did placements at Centre for Addiction & Mental Health, Children's Aid Society (although I spent the most time at this one), shelters, and various junkie clinics (the places where they get clean needed to keep their addictions going). I can see it de-sensitizing someone in the same way that being a cop makes people pessimistic or seeing bums downtown makes others apathetic. I'm not saying I'm an expert, but I've definitely been able to see and understand things a lot better after being immersed in those environments. I doubt any of you care enough about it, but try volunteering at CAMH and see if you still feel the same way after talking with some of the people.

When your brain's permanently damaged, it seems pretty hard to be logical and say "this addiction's ruining my life. I could have so many other things going for me." Maybe it is their fault for taking that drug for the first time (whether they were young or not), but I'm not sure I can still blame someone with a fried brain for not being rational - those mental faculties just aren't there.

But I'm repeating myself now and I'm not sure there's anything else I can say.


 
This was my actual facebook status the day i heard the news.
"Amy Winehouse is dead. Sorry God, shes your problem now. Now YOU have to put up with her drugged out drunken nagging and bitc**** about men. guess she wont be making that "Femenist anthem" with Rhianna after all lol rest in peace and with you gone, so will we!l"
After i posted it, i got many 'likes' but i had to fight off a few feminists too and did it with pride lool
 
I have a problem with addiction being called a disease. The problem is it takes away the responsibility of the addicted person in the process of addition. They may have no choice once addicted but that first time (maybe 100 times) they did, took or drank whatever, they had all the choice in the world. People with diseases rarely have choice (although one could argue smoker...blah blah blah).

We should call addiction, just that, addiction and we should acknowledge the responsibility of the person in the process.
 
GREATEST ACHIEVEMENT EVER AMY WINEHOUSE SOBER AND DRUG FREE FOR 72 hours .
 
It's disturbing that this thread got more 'play' then the Norway tragedy of 80 14-19 year olds getting killed by a nut.
 
backmarkerducati said:
I have a problem with addiction being called a disease. The problem is it takes away the responsibility of the addicted person in the process of addition. They may have no choice once addicted but that first time (maybe 100 times) they did, took or drank whatever, they had all the choice in the world. People with diseases rarely have choice (although one could argue smoker...blah blah blah).

We should call addiction, just that, addiction and we should acknowledge the responsibility of the person in the process.
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I'm a Type I Diabetic, and there's parallels.

I have to manage my eating, exercise, and dosage to stay healthy and live long. I have a sweet tooth, so I have to pick my spots and watch my portions.

An addict has to manage not only staying away from the stuff, but in some cases the mental side-effects from their conditions.

In Alcoholics Anonymous-speak, there can be compulsion or impulse issues with recovered alcoholics. The term 'dry drunk' is for alcoholics who may not be drinking, but act impulsively or are irritable and restless. It's not just about the booze.

To be honest, I think I'd rather be diabetic!
 
klr_guy said:
It's disturbing that this thread got more 'play' then the Norway tragedy of 80 14-19 year olds getting killed by a nut.
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No one's defending the tool (subject) in that thread.
 
Amy Winehouse no longer needs sympathy from any of us, she's dead and can't receive it. Her family and friends however certainly do deserve it. Furthermore, anyone stating they have no sympathy for anyone still alive who chose or chooses to be an addict; is making less of a statement about the addict, and more of a statement about themself and the type of person they are. Sympathy should come without a cost, it certainly doesn't cost you anything to give it to someone else. Showing sympathy for others who make bad and dumb choices only adds to your character, not doing so only detracts.

Definition
Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. Also known as empathic concern, it is the feeling of compassion or concern for another, the wish to see them better off or happier. Although empathy and sympathy are often used interchangeably, a subtle variation in ordinary usage can be detected. To empathize is to respond to another's perceived emotional state by experiencing feelings of a similar sort.[1] Sympathy not only includes empathizing, but also entails having a positive regard or a non-fleeting concern for the other person.[2]

In common usage, sympathy is usually making known one's understanding of another's unhappiness or suffering, especially when it is grief. Sympathy can also refer to being aware of other (positive) emotions as well. In a broader sense, it can refer to the sharing of political or ideological sentiments, such as in the phrase "a communist sympathizer". The word derives from the Greek συμπάθεια (sympatheia),[3] from σύν (syn) "together" and πάθος (pathos) "passion", in this case "suffering" (from πάσχω - pascho, "to be affected by, to suffer").
 
DUPPY said:
Amy Winehouse no longer needs sympathy from any of us, she's dead and can't receive it. Her family and friends however certainly do deserve it. Furthermore, anyone stating they have no sympathy for anyone still alive who chose or chooses to be an addict; is making less of a statement about the addict, and more of a statement about themself and the type of person they are. Sympathy should come without a cost, it certainly doesn't cost you anything to give it to someone else. Showing sympathy for others who make bad and dumb choices only adds to your character, not doing so only detracts.
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I feel sympathy for you..... and your dumb choice......
 
klr_guy said:
It's disturbing that this thread got more 'play' then the Norway tragedy of 80 14-19 year olds getting killed by a nut.
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Not one of those 80 14-19 year olds died of a peanut allergy for christ's sake.... some crazy guy killed them....
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