Re: the titanic submersible issue | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Re: the titanic submersible issue

Evidently, knocking sounds have been detected at 30 minute intervals. Don't know how they've managed to filter that out of all the other noise.

I'm not sure being stuck for days with vanishing small hope of rescue is better than a hull breach, which would be over in milliseconds.
 
So at this point we have....

Canadian P-3 Orion

Three C-17 transport planes
Commercial submersible
Two Canadian surface ships, one deploying sonar buoys.

In addition to an international array of ships and planes, an underwater robot had started searching in the vicinity of the Titanic and there was a push to get salvage equipment to the scene in case the sub is found.

This also does not take into account the support personnel required to field all of this.

What is the bill for this? Think of the issues that could have been solved with the millions that are being spent.
The deepest successful sub rescue in history was at something like 1,500 ft, this one is in the ballpark of 12,500 ft. This is all theatrics. Honestly, this had barely a glimmer of hope of being search and rescue two seconds after the sub failed to check in. This has been a recovery mission at best from the outset. This was compounded by the utterly epic failure by oceangate to prepare. Distress call went out many many hours after sub disappeared. It took over two days to get the first rov on site capable of reaching that depth. You are charging 250K USD per billionaire passenger. Bump the price up to 1M and have ROV on the support ship with a trained rescue crew sitting there waiting.
 
Evidently, knocking sounds have been detected at 30 minute intervals. Don't know how they've managed to filter that out of all the other noise.

I'm not sure being stuck for days with vanishing small hope of rescue is better than a hull breach, which would be over in milliseconds.
Every 30 minutes is strange. That is a long time between attempts. Maybe it is crazy loud in their tin can so they don't want to do it too much.
 
The deepest successful sub rescue in history was at something like 1,500 ft, this one is in the ballpark of 12,500 ft. This is all theatrics. Honestly, this had barely a glimmer of hope of being search and rescue two seconds after the sub failed to check in. This has been a recovery mission at best from the outset. This was compounded by the utterly epic failure by oceangate to prepare. Distress call went out many many hours after sub disappeared. It took over two days to get the first rov on site capable of reaching that depth. You are charging 250K USD per billionaire passenger. Bump the price up to 1M and have ROV on the support ship with a trained rescue crew sitting there waiting.
You would think this would be run like any commercial dive op. One team in the water with another team ready the entire mission time.
That costs money though. You also have to train recovery and have two of everything.

You would have to go into this knowing that any issue is a death sentence.
 
You would think this would be run like any commercial dive op. One team in the water with another team ready the entire mission time.
That costs money though. You also have to train recovery and have two of everything.

You would have to go into this knowing that any issue is a death sentence.
Like CC said, the CEO was open and transparent (probably proud even) in side-stepping any sort of oversight from any agency. CC is right, this was run like his buddy at the cottage in his homebuilt sub. Faafo. The difference is his buddy should be able to safely escape even if it all went to hell. The only excuse for no viable rescue is money. Sadly, governments aren't allowed to tell people doing dumb things that they won't help when the call comes. For future ridiculously stupid ideas, it may make sense for coast guards to get the companies to post a bond of a few million to defray costs when the stupid idea inevitably goes wrong. Again, this is a life experience for billionaires. Adding another seven figures to the price wouldn't change much.
 
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Like CC said, the CEO was open and transparent (probably proud even) in side-stepping any more of oversight from any agency. CC is right, this was run like his buddy at the cottage in his homebuilt sub. Faafo. The difference is his buddy should be able to safely escape even if it all went to hell. The only excuse for no viable rescue is money. Sadly, governments aren't allowed to tell people doing dumb things that they won't help when the call comes. For future ridiculously stupid ideas, it may make sense for coast guards to get the companies to post a bond of a few million to defray costs when the stupid idea inevitably goes wrong. Again, this is a life experience for billionaires. Adding another seven figures to the price wouldn't change much.
Has the machine been down there before and how many times?

Adding insult to injury the head was apparently a porta potti behind a curtain.

Armchair quarterback here but why not have a lift cable and winch up top, just in case.

If you were in the insurance business would you sell a policy to one of the people on board?

Best wishes for those on board but I'm not optimistic.
 
Has the machine been down there before and how many times?

Adding insult to injury the head was apparently a porta potti behind a curtain.

Armchair quarterback here but why not have a lift cable and winch up top, just in case.

If you were in the insurance business would you sell a policy to one of the people on board?

Best wishes for those on board but I'm not optimistic.
The company has done something like 50 dives. Not all to the titanic but some. There is some fog around the dive vessels. The one they promote is a carbon tube but apparently it started suffering fatigue damage (as predicted by the fired manager) and was replaced with a different carbon tube. I have seen a report that the submersible they are in is not the carbon tube one. I have no idea how many they have or what the construction differences are.

As for cable and winch, I don't know. Seems like a useful addition but may be infeasible. You are talking about a cable more than 4km long to recover a vessel that weighs 23000 lbs (in air). Add in a bunch of drag and the force numbers are pretty high. I think your bigger problem would be trying to get the cable near the sub. Kilometers of cable has lots of drag and currents will be going in many different directions in the column. Maybe surmountable by having multiple cables of increasing diameter. Conceptually, ROV hooks centre of 10 km loop of braided fishing line onto large pulley on sub and then surfaces with line paying out behind. Surface ship grabs fishing line and uses it to pull something stronger through the pulley. Stronger line then has enough snot to pull lifting line through the pulley. Then you hoist (ideally deploy a clamp on the sub so lines become redundant prior to lifting).

Listening to previous reports of lost communication every dive, unable to find the titanic, emergency surfacing, etc. This company has been a crapshow from the beginning and wasn't getting better. CEO and investor money are now gone and I can't see the company continuing. Another asshat "CEO" will come up with a way to bilk billionaires soon enough.
 
So at this point we have....

Canadian P-3 Orion

Three C-17 transport planes
Commercial submersible
Two Canadian surface ships, one deploying sonar buoys.

In addition to an international array of ships and planes, an underwater robot had started searching in the vicinity of the Titanic and there was a push to get salvage equipment to the scene in case the sub is found.

This also does not take into account the support personnel required to field all of this.

What is the bill for this? Think of the issues that could have been solved with the millions that are being spent.
Maybe they can write it off as an unscheduled ASW exercise?
 
Horrifying to meet your end like that. Only solace is for those with their kids, at least they’re not alone with strangers in their dying minutes.

Would the kid have been jonesing to to jump in that contraption if it weren’t for the fact that his father was? If not, that’s murder by proxy.
 
Would the kid have been jonesing to to jump in that contraption if it weren’t for the fact that his father was? If not, that’s murder by proxy.
Alternatively…’hey dad I’ve got a great idea for your birthday / Father’s Day / etc….just need $500K’

Sucks either which way.
 
I didn't even know about it until my wife mentioned it late last night.

Better to launch on the next penis rocket?
 
Evidently, knocking sounds have been detected at 30 minute intervals. Don't know how they've managed to filter that out of all the other noise.

I'm not sure being stuck for days with vanishing small hope of rescue is better than a hull breach, which would be over in milliseconds.
I read the sub throws out a signal every 15-30min during the dive. This signal died shortly after going underwater.

Has the machine been down there before and how many times?

Adding insult to injury the head was apparently a porta potti behind a curtain.

Armchair quarterback here but why not have a lift cable and winch up top, just in case.

If you were in the insurance business would you sell a policy to one of the people on board?

Best wishes for those on board but I'm not optimistic.
No tow cable because thing of the drag over 3km long on a rope. The current itself would make the tiny craft unable to maneuver over that force, and you risk tangling in it yourself. That’s what my arm chairing read up on.
 
The company has done something like 50 dives. Not all to the titanic but some. There is some fog around the dive vessels. The one they promote is a carbon tube but apparently it started suffering fatigue damage (as predicted by the fired manager) and was replaced with a different carbon tube. I have seen a report that the submersible they are in is not the carbon tube one. I have no idea how many they have or what the construction differences are.

As for cable and winch, I don't know. Seems like a useful addition but may be infeasible. You are talking about a cable more than 4km long to recover a vessel that weighs 23000 lbs (in air). Add in a bunch of drag and the force numbers are pretty high. I think your bigger problem would be trying to get the cable near the sub. Kilometers of cable has lots of drag and currents will be going in many different directions in the column. Maybe surmountable by having multiple cables of increasing diameter. Conceptually, ROV hooks centre of 10 km loop of braided fishing line onto large pulley on sub and then surfaces with line paying out behind. Surface ship grabs fishing line and uses it to pull something stronger through the pulley. Stronger line then has enough snot to pull lifting line through the pulley. Then you hoist (ideally deploy a clamp on the sub so lines become redundant prior to lifting).

Listening to previous reports of lost communication every dive, unable to find the titanic, emergency surfacing, etc. This company has been a crapshow from the beginning and wasn't getting better. CEO and investor money are now gone and I can't see the company continuing. Another asshat "CEO" will come up with a way to bilk billionaires soon enough.
So they paid $250 K each and they can’t claim to have done it first. If successful it would have been an expensive “Me too” venture.

People have way too much coin.
 
Based on the rest of the half-assery around this project, who thinks the 96 hours was based on the requirements of fit navy seals trained in high pressure situations and who thinks it was based on Middle-aged fat rich guys panicking?
I think the authorities have to take OceanGate at their word for now, but it does feel to me like a "this will never come up" calculation
 
I think the authorities have to take OceanGate at their word for now, but it does feel to me like a "this will never come up" calculation
Given the complete lack of any rescue planning, it was probably better to have 20 hours of air on board for the 12 hour dive. You aren't going to run out on a normal dive but if something goes wrong, you don't need to wait long for it to be over.
 
It is likely a classic case of what I call rich person syndrome. For some uber rich and "powerful" the disconnection with reality, always getting what they want, their arrogance or risk as a thrill prevents them from assessing personal risk like a normy. Results in doing what many normies consider dumb things...

Examples... just on the surface, teenagers with supercars bought by daddy, climbing Everest, whatever extreme sport, JFK JR flying at night outside of his licensed capabilities with a broken foot/leg. Dianna not wearing a seat belt while speeding through city streets....

Many got where they are by taking risks so it is just part of the personality to be less risk adverse. Others suffer from some sort of affluenza and have no understanding of risk as it is rarely applied to them. Add to that money to do whatever you want...
 
Given the complete lack of any rescue planning, it was probably better to have 20 hours of air on board for the 12 hour dive. You aren't going to run out on a normal dive but if something goes wrong, you don't need to wait long for it to be over.
would they have oxygen scrubbers??
 

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