Provincial politics

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Perfect example of the entitled society syndrome. "Province has money, why aren't we getting it? Waah"

the disabled person quoted in that article makes me sick too. He feels like a second class citizen? My god man, how would you have felt living 20 years ago when no subway stations were wheelchair accessible? The tech advance has allowed you to live a fulfilled life and you're still bitching?! Make the best of what you have and stop whining.




BLUE_KAWI said:
Well looky here...the communist Transit System wants more money:

http://www.citynews.ca/2014/06/16/240m-shortfall-means-ttc-cant-make-all-subway-stations-accessible/
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BLUE_KAWI said:
Batting 300? Is that a term from baseball...one of the worst sports games of all time? You must be public union.
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Wow right again! :rolleyes:
 
Just read in the paper that Liberals will not increase public sector pay. How long before the union vampires start shutting down the city??? JULY is my bet. Unions will cry end of the world, again.


Red_Liner740 said:
Perfect example of the entitled society syndrome. "Province has money, why aren't we getting it? Waah"

the disabled person quoted in that article makes me sick too. He feels like a second class citizen? My god man, how would you have felt living 20 years ago when no subway stations were wheelchair accessible? The tech advance has allowed you to live a fulfilled life and you're still bitching?! Make the best of what you have and stop whining.
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BLUE_KAWI said:
Just read in the paper that Liberals will not increase public sector pay. How long before the union vampires start shutting down the city??? JULY is my bet. Unions will cry end of the world, again.
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The Union "Vampires" were well aware the liberals had that planned, it was part of many of the contracts previously negotiated (teaches union etc) and they still voted for the liberals, imagine that.
 
ZX600 said:
The Union "Vampires" were well aware the liberals had that planned, it was part of many of the contracts previously negotiated (teaches union etc) and they still voted for the liberals, imagine that.
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That's because there are ways around a "wage freeze" and they all know it.
When us regular folk have our wages frozen it means just that, no increase in pay, period!
However, that's not the way it works in the public sector. For the uninitiated let me explain. Every position has a designation. Within that designation there will be multiple levels, each with a corresponding raise in pay and/or benefits. Contracts may be frozen so there will be no changes to the existing wage structure but that doesn't preclude individuals from levelling up within their designated group.
Example, a person is hired as a GO-4. After 3 months they get an automatic raise going from temporary to permanent. There are three levels within the GO-4 designation. After completing the required assignments/courses whatever for each they move to the next level. So after a period of time, while there was a wage freeze in place this GO-4 has moved from entry level to top tier. AND it's all perfectly legal and acceptable.
 
BLUE_KAWI said:
Just read in the paper that Liberals will not increase public sector pay. How long before the union vampires start shutting down the city??? JULY is my bet. Unions will cry end of the world, again.
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I'll take that bet. How much you in for?
 
BLUE_KAWI said:
Just read in the paper that Liberals will not increase public sector pay. How long before the union vampires start shutting down the city??? JULY is my bet. Unions will cry end of the world, again.
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Strong prediction. I'd put money on it.


Sent from the future using my GOLDEN iPhone 30 SS
 
Stephen W. said:
That's because there are ways around a "wage freeze" and they all know it.
When us regular folk have our wages frozen it means just that, no increase in pay, period!
However, that's not the way it works in the public sector. For the uninitiated let me explain. Every position has a designation. Within that designation there will be multiple levels, each with a corresponding raise in pay and/or benefits. Contracts may be frozen so there will be no changes to the existing wage structure but that doesn't preclude individuals from levelling up within their designated group.
Example, a person is hired as a GO-4. After 3 months they get an automatic raise going from temporary to permanent. There are three levels within the GO-4 designation. After completing the required assignments/courses whatever for each they move to the next level. So after a period of time, while there was a wage freeze in place this GO-4 has moved from entry level to top tier. AND it's all perfectly legal and acceptable.
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Back in the Bob Rae days it wasn't only a freeze, but a wage roll-back because of a mandated 2 weeks off without pay. The freeze extended well beyond the time of the economic downturn so when other areas of business were booming and pays were increasing, worker retention and acquisition in the public sector suffered badly. To top it off many of the people who had been offered packages, due to down-sizing of the public sector, were the sort who could immediately expect to find other employment. Who else would you expect to leave, but the people who were good enough to make the buy-out a windfall?

So, in short, a 'wage freeze' can mean exactly that in the public sector, and it has in the past. When it comes to recent history you can't exactly expect people to accept such a thing, when those above them are giving the, "Do as I say, not as I do" line.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Back in the Bob Rae days it wasn't only a freeze, but a wage roll-back because of a mandated 2 weeks off without pay. The freeze extended well beyond the time of the economic downturn so when other areas of business were booming and pays were increasing, worker retention and acquisition in the public sector suffered badly. To top it off many of the people who had been offered packages, due to down-sizing of the public sector, were the sort who could immediately expect to find other employment. Who else would you expect to leave, but the people who were good enough to make the buy-out a windfall?

So, in short, a 'wage freeze' can mean exactly that in the public sector, and it has in the past. When it comes to recent history you can't exactly expect people to accept such a thing, when those above them are giving the, "Do as I say, not as I do" line.
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Say wha....??? Ontario in the 1990s was in the worst economic recession since the Great Depression! I don't know what colour the sky is in your world but in mine many companies that weathered the 80's went under in the 90's. Others, like the one I work for, (much like the NDP) have never recovered from the that time. So, I do not know what "areas of business were booming" or who's "pays were increasing" while the public sector suffered.
What I do remember was that Rae wanted to work with the unions but Ontario's two largest public sector unions, OPSEU and CUPE both said FU! So the government did the only thing it could. If you or yours suffered due to that then lay the blame where it belongs, on the unions.
Oh, and lets not forget this did not effect workers earning $30,000 or less per year. Might not sound great by todays standards but 20 years ago that was a damn good wage. For those who are not familiar, most government jobs are salaried and were based on 36 1/4 hours per week. So, that's like $16.55 per hour plus benefits.
Having my own wages rolled back three times, frozen numerous others as well as going on work share twice I can not agree with your position. "Wage freeze" means something totally different to public workers than it does for us in the private sector. (My story of a GO-4 is a true account of my time working for the province.)
I will agree with you on the, "Do as I say, not as I do" line. That's why I rage against the public sector so vehemently. They are the ones who seem to yell the loudest when change effects them. Yet are quick to say, "suck it up" when it's someone else. The auto sector comes to mind.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Back in the Bob Rae days it wasn't only a freeze, but a wage roll-back because of a mandated 2 weeks off without pay.
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Wow I can't believe I just read that. Bob Rae recognized the fiscal situation and that was one of many ways to right the ship. We're all supposed to be in this together. Every work-a-day person suffered thru those times to some degree. Don't work two weeks, don't get for two weeks work. Not the end of the world. It's all about solutions and everybody pitches in just like on Gilligans Island.
 
Stephen W. said:
Say wha....??? Ontario in the 1990s was in the worst economic recession since the Great Depression! I don't know what colour the sky is in your world but in mine many companies that weathered the 80's went under in the 90's. Others, like the one I work for, (much like the NDP) have never recovered from the that time. So, I do not know what "areas of business were booming" or who's "pays were increasing" while the public sector suffered.
What I do remember was that Rae wanted to work with the unions but Ontario's two largest public sector unions, OPSEU and CUPE both said FU! So the government did the only thing it could. If you or yours suffered due to that then lay the blame where it belongs, on the unions.
Oh, and lets not forget this did not effect workers earning $30,000 or less per year. Might not sound great by todays standards but 20 years ago that was a damn good wage. For those who are not familiar, most government jobs are salaried and were based on 36 1/4 hours per week. So, that's like $16.55 per hour plus benefits.
Having my own wages rolled back three times, frozen numerous others as well as going on work share twice I can not agree with your position. "Wage freeze" means something totally different to public workers than it does for us in the private sector. (My story of a GO-4 is a true account of my time working for the province.)
I will agree with you on the, "Do as I say, not as I do" line. That's why I rage against the public sector so vehemently. They are the ones who seem to yell the loudest when change effects them. Yet are quick to say, "suck it up" when it's someone else. The auto sector comes to mind.
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Please reread. I said that business was booming AFTER the recession was over, but that the freezes remained in the public sector. In fact they continued for several years well into the recovery.

inreb said:
Wow I can't believe I just read that. Bob Rae recognized the fiscal situation and that was one of many ways to right the ship. We're all supposed to be in this together. Every work-a-day person suffered thru those times to some degree. Don't work two weeks, don't get for two weeks work. Not the end of the world. It's all about solutions and everybody pitches in just like on Gilligans Island.
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Bob Rae made things worse by first trying to spend his way out of the recession, then changing tracks and trying fiscal conservatism. Either will work but only if you pick one, then stick to it.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Bob Rae made things worse by first trying to spend his way out of the recession, then changing tracks and trying fiscal conservatism. Either will work but only if you pick one, then stick to it.
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I haven't got the minutes of that meeting in front of me but I feel very confident changing of tack in of itself is not why they tempertantrumed. It's their principle to tempertantrum. It's their mandate to not look beyond themselves.
 
inreb said:
I haven't got the minutes of that meeting in front of me but I feel very confident changing of tack in of itself is not why they tempertantrumed. It's their principle to tempertantrum. It's their mandate to not look beyond themselves.
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The temper tantrum, as you call it, is immaterial. Rae screwed Ontario's economy by not having the balls to stick with the initial plan. Either method would have been fine; stimulus to lessen the impact of the recession by drawing it out over a longer period, or austerity to work within available means. Instead Harris had to make even tougher calls, to fix what Rae broke.
 
Stephen W. said:
That's because there are ways around a "wage freeze" and they all know it.
.
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WTF are you talking about, ask any teacher if they will be getting a raise in the next 2 years?

And you must be smoking some crack if you think no one gets a raise on the private sector when there is a wage freeze.

So you want someone that gets the qualifications and is promoted to not get a raise? would you like to be promoted in your job and not get a raise? (using your GO-4 example)
 
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