I don't get it,
but I have no formal education, sorry.
but I have no formal education, sorry.
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Popping wheelies at walmart after business hours.
- Thread starter 50 over
- Start date
bombshelter13
Well-known member
Curious, what type of license is ordinarily needed for a 'racing event'?
Ongoing business would require a business license from the municipality. Occasional events would require a special event permit. Each would likely have conditions attached with respect to on-site sanitation and food handling (Health Dept), security or police presence, hours of operation, permitted levels of noise, signage, etc.
Mistero2009
Active member
The last time I've checked, having a formal education means having studied the topic in an accredited educational facility and not spitting stuff out simply because I'm stating my personal opinion.
But I don't understand, why are you attacking the poster instead of my post?
What about just putting up a sign like this? Is that legal?
A sign does nothing to protect you from lawsuits, pertaining to the misconduct or negligence of the presenters. That's what insurance is for. It also doesn't put you in good with the licensing requirements, of the city or region, nor does it protect you from bylaws.
bombshelter13
Well-known member
When you say 'special event permit', what kind of permit do you mean? Maybe my google fu is weak and I'm just not finding it, but the only places I can see mention of 'special event permits' in Toronto are in the context of special events held in city parks (e.g., Special event guidlines here: http://www.toronto.ca/special_events/eventoffice_guidelines.pdf).
If there is a sort of 'special event permit' that applies to events held on private property, I'd kinda like to know about it, so any information you have about what sort of permit you meant would be welcome.
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So is it legal or not? Not talking about the "what if's" "what if you hit someone" "what if this what if that"...... Its not my show, sign, or building.....I was just invited to ride there....Is it illegal for them to do that (have a stunt show inside a building with just a warning sign), Im sure they have insurance for their event, its the international center....
You can put up any sign you want on your property and it would be legal. It won't necessarily protect you from someone trying to sue you. I can think of more than one racer or their family who have gone on to sue organizers after a bad crash. I also know of one law suit where a track is being sued because a drunk wandering around stumbled in front of and got hit by another spectator's vehicle. The signs at the gate about "Enter at own risk" meant nothing.
If you're going to have racing or stunts, you have to separate the spectators from the participants by a reasonable distance appropriate for the activity. That takes care of the dangerous operation part. That separation should provide spectators with reasonable protection from any hazards that would be reasonably expected from participant mishap. That provides some protection against civil liability.
There are too many variables to answer that. It all depends on where you are and what the municipality there requires. Generally, the greater the population, the greater the regulatory hurdles. Way up north you might not need any permit at all. Anywhere on the Escarpment, you would also need to get permission from the Niagara Escarpment Commission, and in other places local Conservation Authorities may have a say in anything happening within their regulatory boundaries.
Who in your opinion would be sued if something happened, the riders or the event holders? Probably both right! doh
More than both. Riders involved. Event organizers. Owner of venue. Any responders. Everyone gets named in hopes of ensuring at least one has deep pockets. That's where the need for insurance comes in. Responsible promoters will have adequate coverage to protect themselves and participants.
Impossible to answer, because it varies by jurisdiction. In general, though, regional licensing of an event also carries a requirement for liability insurance. That would make your "sign only" event illegal.
Yeah come to think of it I already know of an exact situation, that happend at the Poweraide center a few years ago. It was one of the first stunt shows I had ever been too, and one of my friends was hit by a rider that was not invited and snuck onto the stunt area. He Tboned my friend and broke his arm and his leg, and wrote off his bike...My friends insurance ended up sueing the rider, his insurance, the event organizers promotion company, and the owner of the Power aide center...
Im pretty sure its still in court, one day when its over with hopefully he will post the video...
Mistero2009
Active member
Canadian system is more common-law then strictly legislative. Parts that you underlined clearly state ON ARREST and MAY, so the end result (arrest and vehicle detainment) is not certain, is it? I was asking to show me not what MAY happen but where does it state that the IMPOUND is a sure thing. Since you can't do that, you're fighting a losing battle.
1) I'm not hoping for the best possible outcome, but rather on a general one.
ie. A cop gets mad and arrests you, well, more unnecessary work for him.
BTW, that Porsche driver, was he not a foreign visitor?
2) Sentence length plays a role in who can release, except for some serious crimes where a cop cannot release you and has to take you in front of the JP.
You are confusing between the two pieces of legislature and using them as you see fit. Under the HTA, arrest without a warrant is only for certain offences.
It specifically says, "A police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act, making an arrest without warrant". The initial arrest had to be made under HTA, not CC.
As for Criminal Code offences, there are CC release procedures.
3) You said something completely opposite in your post earlier.
Not for any arrestable offence but when an arrest has been made. I say it makes a big difference.
Just to clearify, when I say IMPOUND I mean legislatively-ordered impound (HTA172), not removal/tow.
The OP's question was "can a cop nail ya for stunting [popping wheelies etc] in a walmart Parking lot?"
The answer is clearly yes, and my answer outlined some of the immediate consequences that could follow. "Criminal Code charge, Dangerous Operation of a Motor Vehicle if a cop is so inclined. Fingerprints, mug shot, bike towed to impound. "
There are other consequences, lesser and greater. There is no "general" outcome. All things are possible. If you;re going in, you should be aware of all the possible outcomes, not just the less painful ones.
Yes, there are more serious crimes where a cop cannot release you without judicial approval, but that's not the same as saying that a cop can't hold you and put you through the full process for a lesser charge. Sentence length has nothing to do with it.
This is where you are confused.
Not all law enforcement in Ontario has the required warrant to enforce provincial law. One authority to impound for dangerous driving derives from the HTA which is a provincial Act. All that line is saying is that any law enforcement officer with the power to enforce the HTA may impound a vehicle involved in specific offences outlined by the HTA.
Among those offences outlined by the HTA are Criminal Code offences, including Impaired Driving, Dangerous Operation, and more. Impaired driving is a Criminal Code violation, but the law that permits the impound of an impaired driver's vehicle derives from the HTA. Just as provincial law can authorize the detention (impound) of a vehicle used in impaired driving (Criminal Code offence), so too can provincial law authorize detention of the vehicle used in a Dangerous Operation offence. There is no requirement for a cop to make an initial arrest under the HTA.
Yes there are, but they are varied and the police have several options by which they can choose to proceed. You don't get a say in the matter. If they want to put you through the full monty, you're stuck going along for whatever ride they arrange for you.
Clearly, you are imposing your own personal and arbitrary restriction to the word "impound". I said the cops have options. They can put your vehicle in impound until your court proceedings have completed. Is that not impound? As another poster said, impounds need not be of a specified duration a-la HTA172 or HTA55.1, and impounds need not be mandatory in all cases. However, once a vehicle is impounded as permitted by law, it is impounded just the same.
Is dangerous driving any different than any other dangerous activity?
Whether you are on private property, public access or even inside a building, if a cop knows someone is in potential danger from a speeding car or bike or sword fighting demo, archery demo etc is he/she not expected to take appropriate action?
The extent of the charges would to a degree be dependant on how stupid the perpetrator was before the cop intervened and how stupid the perp was after the intervention.
Insurance is a specifically worded contract. It could exclude performance trials and demos so I wouldn't count on them to make good for damages or liabilities from stunting based on street insurance.
Whether you are on private property, public access or even inside a building, if a cop knows someone is in potential danger from a speeding car or bike or sword fighting demo, archery demo etc is he/she not expected to take appropriate action?
The extent of the charges would to a degree be dependant on how stupid the perpetrator was before the cop intervened and how stupid the perp was after the intervention.
Insurance is a specifically worded contract. It could exclude performance trials and demos so I wouldn't count on them to make good for damages or liabilities from stunting based on street insurance.
Metastable
Well-known member
On a side note - although it would be next to impossible to have a track near downtown.... it would be very possible to have an area where stunt riders are allowed to go and practice. There is a place like this in Nice and probably others around the world. Why not just give them a spot to go to, where they can stunt and not have to worry about the Police? A perfect place would be the usually empty parking lots around Ontario Place or the ones across Lakeshore where they have the CNE..... and there are various other places around town that would work too.
One word: Liability
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