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Pan America

Take any trade rag for what it’s worth. They make their money (paycheques) and receive lavish perks from manufacturers, not you. They are not journalists, they sell ads to the motorcycle industry, not paid subscriptions to consumers.

Who does any business serve? Their customers... those are not us.

The problem is bikes aren’t like camping equipment where a hobbyist can support a review channel and still remain independent by buying their own gear and testing it. So, I agree, professional reviews are almost always coloured by the method by which the review publication survives. I like to read a variety of owner reviews but even there you have some severe bias with the “by god I bought this, by god I’ll enjoy this” crowd too. Tough to do that with a brand new bike launch too unless you want to wait around a bit.

Having said that, I understand that every bike I’ve bought has been a gamble. Every bike has had its quirks. I have a short list of what would be intolerable for ownership. #1 is will it cripple me after an hour?
 
I like to read a variety of owner reviews but even there you have some severe bias with the “by god I bought this, by god I’ll enjoy this” crowd too. Tough to do that with a brand new bike launch too unless you want to wait around a bit.
Maybe reviews can be @Wingboy retirement job. With the 250 he definitely wasn't in the "I bought this so it's good and I'll like it" camp.
 
Maybe reviews can be @Wingboy retirement job. With the 250 he definitely wasn't in the "I bought this so it's good and I'll like it" camp.
I might be in a position to get with a few reviews. I really like my MTS, but i REALLY like the latest offerings. The PanAm, the V4s MTS and the Suzuki 1050 VStrom are all worth a good look.
Can only date Rosie O'Donnell for so long.
 
Same for the new V4S Multistrada. Only thing negative I've seen was from only one video where it was mentioned the mpg difference the V4 gets compared to the V2 and they said in similar riding the V2 got 48-49mpg whereas the V4 got 39 and they agreed that's a big difference but also said they'd take the performance tradeoff of it. We'll see what actual owners say about that after a year or so.

Yeah, but the thing about reading reviews from owners is that there is such a wide range of skills and preferences that colour their critiques.

Some people just want to go fast in a straight line, so asking them about how the motorcycle handles is kind of pointless. "It handles great! It doesn't wobble at all when I twist the throttle!"

And then there are the ADV owners who never take their bikes off-road, and the sportbike owners who never track their bikes. I'm not looking down my nose on them at all -- do whatever you want on your bike that makes you happy. But the point is that you're only going to get their impression of their motorcycle from a very limited viewpoint.

At least with moto-journalists, the expectation is that they will ride the bike the way it was designed to be ridden, and closer to the limits of its capabilities than the average punter on the street. Shame they can't be honest about their impressions for fear of losing advertising dollars.
 
I would have appreciated a review for my Kawasaki Z750S along the lines of “after an hour you’ll feel like a rugby team used your ass as a practice ball for goal kicks and your knees will bend at angles only reserved for high class hookers and yoga teachers, that is only if you can hang onto your licence for that hour though as the tendency to go like **** off a shovel is built into this evil machine”.
 
And then there are the ADV owners who never take their bikes off-road, and the sportbike owners who never track their bikes. I'm not looking down my nose on them at all -- do whatever you want on your bike that makes you happy. But the point is that you're only going to get their impression of their motorcycle from a very limited viewpoint.

At least with moto-journalists, the expectation is that they will ride the bike the way it was designed to be ridden, and closer to the limits of its capabilities than the average punter on the street. Shame they can't be honest about their impressions for fear of losing advertising dollars.

Everyone has different priorities of what they want out of a bike. The problem with the professional moto-reviews is that they review/sell the dream of what the bike is marketed to do, not the real world application. That's great for selling bikes, but doesn't apply to 99% of the conditions the bike is likely to be ridden in.

Every ADV bike is tested off-road, with of course the glory pic of the bike in the air or roosting the back tire. Every sport bike is track tested with a pro dragging their elbow. What percentage of buyers are going to take their $20k+ 600lbs ADV bike off roading beyond a logging road? Yes, that sells bikes and views, but is not very informative for most buyers that are much more likely to go for a weekend ride/tour/commute.

The Revzilla moto-commute reviews are much more informational for most people.
 
Motorcycle reviews are always enjoyable to watch, but they mean nothing to the average rider, which I am sure is about 95% of the people that ride a motorcycle. A review of my commute to work would not sell that particular brand of motorcycle.
 
The idea of judging a bike in a vacuum is flawed, you HAVE to compare it to other bikes, the competition etc

calling every bike "good" is bad because it sets the bar very low (in this context I presume good refers to "functional and doesnt explode upon start up" )

There are benchmarks against which you compare/contrast or judge a bike, this is done consciously via a professional moto journalist or amateur youtubers or even subconsciously every time you ride a bike.

I do it with every bike I ride, I compare it to the MT09, thats my benchmark for what a fun bike should be like, its so rowdy and fun almost in an uncontrollable and slightly unstable way

Moto journalists who do this sort of thing are not only engaging in self deception by calling every bike "good" but are actively misinforming their audience for the sake of not burning bridges or other motives

I used to watch MissendenFlyer who did this ALL the time, every bike was 'good' or 'lovely' or 'brilliant',
the good journo's will tell you exactly what they dont like about a bike and how it compares to the competition

Fair enough, but again, which bikes would you call "bad"?

To be clear, I'm not saying everyone who talks about bikes in various media (magazines, websites, YouTube, podcasts) does so critically. I don't watch Missenden Flyer videos either. Even the Daily Rider videos with Zach Courts tread a bit lightly for me, though he does do a decent job of describing what a bike feels like to ride.

Most bikes fill a niche. The V-Strom may not be the 'best' ADV bike, but when you include for value or what people actually need from a bike like that, it's a fantastic choice for many. Same could be said for the GSXS, or CBR650R, or R3 etc. The Africa Twin might not be as good a pure tourer as the GS, or as good off road as the T7, but it slots somewhere in between, and that's a good fit for the right rider. You love the MT09, but not everyone does. It's been criticised for having snatchy fuelling and cheap finish and suspension. It's undeniably a great bike for many, but not for all.

I guess what I'm trying to say with my above post is that I think expecting 'First Ride' reports to be aggressively critical is unfair on journalists. They exist to introduce a bike and give a flavour of the manufacturer's intent and approach. The meat of the journalism and aggressive criticism happens in all the subsequent pieces. Some don't do that, but many do.

At the end of it, I love motorcycles and talking about motorcycles. It's why I spout such nonsense here. But I can't possibly ride every bike I think is interesting, especially in a way that I could be remotely critical about anything beyond basic ergos etc. The journalists that I like and trust fill that gap, and I enjoy that. Some speak more to what I want out of a bike (Michael Neeves) and some are almost guaranteed to like the things I don't and dislike the things I do (Ryan F9, mostly, though I still enjoy his videos). I still read/watch/listen to the good ones, especially the UK magazines (Ride, Bike, MCN and Practical Sportbikes have a ton of great content that's critical, honest and useful, both for new bikes and old ones). Most importantly, with the points of reference that I do have and the bikes I've ridden, it mostly matches up with what the journalists say (though I still think my 2nd Gen ZX-10R is an underrated bike, unfairly compared to the bonkers 1st Gen!)

Take any trade rag for what it’s worth. They make their money (paycheques) and receive lavish perks from manufacturers, not you. They are not journalists, they sell ads to the motorcycle industry, not paid subscriptions to consumers.

Who does any business serve? Their customers... those are not us.
There aren't many 'rags' left. The big US magazines have closed shop in paper form. I don't know what websites you look at, but many of my go-to's are run by companies selling things related to motorcycles (but not motorcycles themselves) who definitely aren't selling ads from Honda or Ducati. 44 Teeth, Bennett's, Revzilla, F9, for example. Aside from the main funder, they're reliant on Google ads that have nothing to do with anything remotely related to motorcycling. The UK magazines listed above may sell ads, but they offer consumer advice very much in favour of the buyer. It's a different tradition there, and it shows...
 
Fair enough, but again, which bikes would you call "bad"?

To be clear, I'm not saying everyone who talks about bikes in various media (magazines, websites, YouTube, podcasts) does so critically. I don't watch Missenden Flyer videos either. Even the Daily Rider videos with Zach Courts tread a bit lightly for me, though he does do a decent job of describing what a bike feels like to ride.

Most bikes fill a niche. The V-Strom may not be the 'best' ADV bike, but when you include for value or what people actually need from a bike like that, it's a fantastic choice for many. Same could be said for the GSXS, or CBR650R, or R3 etc. The Africa Twin might not be as good a pure tourer as the GS, or as good off road as the T7, but it slots somewhere in between, and that's a good fit for the right rider. You love the MT09, but not everyone does. It's been criticised for having snatchy fuelling and cheap finish and suspension. It's undeniably a great bike for many, but not for all.

I guess what I'm trying to say with my above post is that I think expecting 'First Ride' reports to be aggressively critical is unfair on journalists. They exist to introduce a bike and give a flavour of the manufacturer's intent and approach. The meat of the journalism and aggressive criticism happens in all the subsequent pieces. Some don't do that, but many do.

At the end of it, I love motorcycles and talking about motorcycles. It's why I spout such nonsense here. But I can't possibly ride every bike I think is interesting, especially in a way that I could be remotely critical about anything beyond basic ergos etc. The journalists that I like and trust fill that gap, and I enjoy that. Some speak more to what I want out of a bike (Michael Neeves) and some are almost guaranteed to like the things I don't and dislike the things I do (Ryan F9, mostly, though I still enjoy his videos). I still read/watch/listen to the good ones, especially the UK magazines (Ride, Bike, MCN and Practical Sportbikes have a ton of great content that's critical, honest and useful, both for new bikes and old ones). Most importantly, with the points of reference that I do have and the bikes I've ridden, it mostly matches up with what the journalists say (though I still think my 2nd Gen ZX-10R is an underrated bike, unfairly compared to the bonkers 1st Gen!)


There aren't many 'rags' left. The big US magazines have closed shop in paper form. I don't know what websites you look at, but many of my go-to's are run by companies selling things related to motorcycles (but not motorcycles themselves) who definitely aren't selling ads from Honda or Ducati. 44 Teeth, Bennett's, Revzilla, F9, for example. Aside from the main funder, they're reliant on Google ads that have nothing to do with anything remotely related to motorcycling. The UK magazines listed above may sell ads, but they offer consumer advice very much in favour of the buyer. It's a different tradition there, and it shows...


I like MCN and neeves , I also like zack and ari(now with revzilla) , 44 teeth with Alastair Fagan and the bike show(south african)


Although I too could spend all day reading/watching about bikes
 
I like MCN and neeves , I also like zack and ari(now with revzilla) , 44 teeth with Alastair Fagan and the bike show(south african)


Although I too could spend all day reading/watching about bikes

I'd add most of what Bennett's does to the mix (especially if it's Simon Hargreaves, who I like from the Front End Chatter podcast), as they do an interesting mix of bike tests, product tests and general bike info stuff. The one about where different skill level riders actually look using eye-tracking glasses was interesting for example.
 
I have a friend of mine who is an instructor with RawHyde, where Harley did a press event. He's a BMW GS guy through and through.

He rides hard. Way harder than I do. And he loved the bike. Spent 2 days on one in all kinds of terrain, and he said he couldn't find a fault with it except the name on the tank.

I'll trust his opinion. The only reason I wouldn't consider one is the cruiser crowd. They weren't... friendly... to me when I was riding a Japanese cruiser, I can only imagine the derision they'd spout.

Maybe I'm not being fair, but HD's customers' reputations are well-earned, for the most part.

As are BMW riders, to be fair.
 
klim totting rich guys, do they even dakar bro?
A friend in BC was president of the BMWMOA chapter in Vancouver for a while. According to him, it was mostly cheapskate greybeards bragging about turning the odometer over on their K75...
 
Dont feel too bad. You'll need a frilly leather jacket soon enough. Preferably with a huge logo across the back in case people cant see the logo on you helmet, boots, gloves, bandana and 100 places on your bike.
Sounds appropriate
 
I might be in a position to get with a few reviews. I really like my MTS, but i REALLY like the latest offerings. The PanAm, the V4s MTS and the Suzuki 1050 VStrom are all worth a good look.
Can only date Rosie O'Donnell for so long.
Looking at these choices a little closer.
Ducati must have lost the post-it note reminder from back in 03/07. Bad valve guides back then resulted in lots of recalls. And now with the MTS V4 they found bad valve guides again. This time they are replacing the motor!
Buh bye Ducati.
Hello Harley.
 
Looking at these choices a little closer.
Ducati must have lost the post-it note reminder from back in 03/07. Bad valve guides back then resulted in lots of recalls. And now with the MTS V4 they found bad valve guides again. This time they are replacing the motor!
Buh bye Ducati.
Hello Harley.
all the reviews are saying its a hoot.
 

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