Overbearing electronics

TK4

TK4

Well-known member
I was reading elsewhere that the latest generation BMWs can be disabled simply by smashing the TFT screen, it's become a sport in some parts of Europe and you're stuck by the side of the road.
On some Ducatis (I don't know if it applies to all), if you don't have the magic red key or special credit card when someone tries to steal by jamming the ignition switch it means replacing the lock set, dashboard and ECU. I'm sure there are lots of other examples.
Have the manufacturers gone too far with gizmo-gadgetry ??? I think we know the answer.
 
I keep a couple of EMP-proof vehicles around. No electronics is fine by me.

Never know if we'll ever need to bug out.
 
TK4 said:
I was reading elsewhere that the latest generation BMWs can be disabled simply by smashing the TFT screen, it's become a sport in some parts of Europe and you're stuck by the side of the road.
On some Ducatis (I don't know if it applies to all), if you don't have the magic red key or special credit card when someone tries to steal by jamming the ignition switch it means replacing the lock set, dashboard and ECU. I'm sure there are lots of other examples.
Have the manufacturers gone too far with gizmo-gadgetry ??? I think we know the answer.
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Agree.

Of all the times I've been stranded, almost all of them have been electronic in nature - ignition immobilizer sensor kaput, ABS sensor kaput, etc.

Most mechanical issues can be fixed with a trail/roadside toolkit. Computer chips can't and require a tow to the dealer to replace.

I've ridden long enough not to need the alphabet soup of electronics, TC, ABS, QS, CC, ACC, BRBROFLMAO...

yayaokboomerblahblahblah
 
Keyless start is probably the thing I dislike the most. I don't even like it on cars, but on motorcycles... it's adding a Complicated Thing to save me five seconds max. It's going the wrong direction, I want the starting ritual to be longer like an airplane. I want to insert the key, turn the fuel tap, set the choke, and kickstart the bike. Dangblasted electric starters

On top of that, some bikes have smartphone apps that let you see things, change things. That's not horrible on its own, but now you've introduced the problem of obsolescence to motorcycles. At some point, the company is going to stop supporting the app, the app will stop working, and now any features that were tied to the app are just gone forever. I don't think anybody does anything actually important with them... yet
 
I didn't find all the gadgetry obtrusive on my Tuono, mostly just dialled them way back so they never kicked in, which was super easy to do.

That said, I do think the advanced ABS systems can be real lifesavers in surprise scenarios. We all like to think of ourselves as calm, icy-veined and able to brake to the limits of the tires, but the reality is that when faced with a real heart-in-mouth scare (e.g. a crash in front of you on the highway that you need to brake hard to avoid, or someone pulling out of an intersection), almost none of us would be able to brake anywhere near our best after practising emergency stops in an empty parking lot. The adrenaline, surprise, fear etc. changes your motor skills, and most will either over brake (wiping out the front) or under brake, potentially hitting the thing they want to avoid. Knowing you can grab a fistful of lever and stomp on the pedal while still staying upright and stopping somewhere close to the limits of the tire is useful peace of mind for me. I know racers and pros can often stop in slightly shorter distances at a test track than using ABS, but do you really want to rely on a best-case-scenario ability in the midst of a worst-case-scenario?

(Says the guy shopping for bikes mostly with no ABS)
 
Priller said:
I didn't find all the gadgetry obtrusive on my Tuono, mostly just dialled them way back so they never kicked in, which was super easy to do.

That said, I do think the advanced ABS systems can be real lifesavers in surprise scenarios. We all like to think of ourselves as calm, icy-veined and able to brake to the limits of the tires, but the reality is that when faced with a real heart-in-mouth scare (e.g. a crash in front of you on the highway that you need to brake hard to avoid, or someone pulling out of an intersection), almost none of us would be able to brake anywhere near our best after practising emergency stops in an empty parking lot. The adrenaline, surprise, fear etc. changes your motor skills, and most will either over brake (wiping out the front) or under brake, potentially hitting the thing they want to avoid. Knowing you can grab a fistful of lever and stomp on the pedal while still staying upright and stopping somewhere close to the limits of the tire is useful peace of mind for me. I know racers and pros can often stop in slightly shorter distances at a test track than using ABS, but do you really want to rely on a best-case-scenario ability in the midst of a worst-case-scenario?

(Says the guy shopping for bikes mostly with no ABS)
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I put ABS on the good side for street bike. Let you disable it if people really want to. Make the rider actively choose to increase their odds of a crash.

On a bike, the rest of the crap (keyless, apps, etc) I don't want anything to do with. The fancy intertial controls (anti-wheelie, traction control, etc), should be managed through the bike with no external control required and I should be able to disable them (and the bike should function with them faulted, turn the screen red but don't refuse to run you stupid pos).
 
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Just one of the reasons i love the Ural. The speedo has a chip to store a bunch of data. (the only thing i use is the trip meter) Zero nanny stuff.
 
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My new bike has a keyfob based keyless ignition. Honestly, I don't miss the key thing much, particularly with the aforementioned "Key FIRST, then gloves!" thing where inevitably you get 100% geared up and sitting down only to remember that your keys are in your pants pocket.

I have the fob on me clipped to my pants on a carabiner and that's that for the duration of any ride. I can also lock and unlock all my bags with it.

There's a lot of settings that can be changed via the infotainment unit however, and yes, some things like the heated seat settings, heated grips, and a lot of specific adjustments are indeed controlled through it. If it died, yeah, you'd have a problem for sure in some regards...although I'm pretty confident the bike itself would still start and ride just fine as the engine ECU is completely elsewhere. You might just have to resort to riding like a peasant again with no bum heater and without 650 channels of satellite radio to choose from.
 
Only thing I want on my bikes with any bike I purchase is ABS. Anything beyond that...is a nice to have bonus (this includes DCT).
 
nobbie48 said:
K.I.S.S.
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Sometimes the non-KISS stuff is nice though, admittedly.

I remember when I used to think that things like seat and steering wheel heaters in a car were stupid. Now, after having owned and experienced both on a -30° day, I have had a change of heart. 😆
 
All the amenities are nice.

But it's always a trade-off for cost, weight and complexity.

I approach motorcycling from a riding-experience standpoint. If my aim is to have the most nimble bike for attacking the twisties or dancing over gnarly terrain, I'd gladly give up all the amenities for lighter weight. Which also reduces the likelihood of not being stranded hundreds of miles away from civilization because an alphabet-soup computerized sensor/chip decided to give up the ghost (or more likely because I fell on it...)

However, if the goal is have an ultra-comfortable highway tourer, then more weight actually makes the bike more stable and planted at freeway speeds and when passing semis. So option DF outta the bike with the heated footpegs and coffee-maker integrated into the topcase! 🤣

Because that CAA flat-bed truck is merely a speed-dial away!
 
I don't know about "over bearing"... but Buddy has a Challenger, and something went wrong with the radio... and because the radio (entertainment center) is tied to the security system, the ONLY solution is a $3600 Mopar radio (he also told me that replacing a rear wheel speed sensor made the radio work again... so I'm not sure I'm getting the best info here)
Different buddy has a Suburban, with something wrong in the security module, which bricks the truck. GM warranted it... three times, three times it didn't fix it (We ended up using a bone yard module, that GM reprogrammed, it's been OK for 3 years now. Buddy is VERY lucky he has friends at GM, a normal customer would have been left in the cold, and this a known problem with that electronics package)
I am/was in the market for a new truck, got looking at new trucks (they're friggin HUGE) and what are you supposed to do with that entertainment unit in the dash? That's more entertainment unit that I have in the house.Are people hanging out in the driveway watching 4k movies? There's a TV in the dash! WTF???? IT'S A TRUCK
Bought a 2002 Tundra with a zillion miles on it... it has a AM/FM radio NO TAPE DECK, that gets the same gas mileage as buddie's 2023 Tundra, that is as big as a house, with 25% more motor
Maybe I'm a Luddite... an indash GPS is nice, but when it bricks your $80,000 truck, it HAS to be frustrating and there HAS to be a better way
 
Had a WeeStrom that just had an early version of ABS. It did extremely well when braking against other students at courses; especially, when they didn’t have ABS. New Tiger has cruise, which is almost required when travelling long distances at 85 mph in the U.S. A drawback is that the service idiot light needs to be reset.
 
TK4 said:
Have the manufacturers gone too far with gizmo-gadgetry ??? I think we know the answer.
Click to expand...

Some consumers are easily sucked into "high tech" without thinking how useful or practical it really is.

I prefer real instrument gauges or analog gauges in a cluster. Those glass panels a-la-Next Generation Star Trek I have no use for on my motorcycle, cars or in aircraft. I sat in the captain's seat of a B787-9 that my commercial student now flies. Fancy, and I am sure I can get used to it but it is not for me. Same for PDK or DSG transmissions; I prefer a manual. In fact, I have zero use for ABS and it has been around for decades.
 
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