Ontario doubling down on 172. | Page 6 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Ontario doubling down on 172.

ToSlow said:

This should make it interesting at the pumps
Click to expand...
There must be thousands of similar situations. Party A wants to, in their opinion, make something better at a cost to party B and a change in the status quo will mean added costs to group party C who are an accumulation of the clients of party B. Group party D is a bunch that doesn't use the product / service and doesn't care one way or the other. Party B isn't lily white and Party A doesn't care about the finances of parties B or C.

Throw in egos, attitudes, Facebook, tweets and twitters and we get so wrapped up in the melee that we forget that party A forgot to turn off the stove. The house burns down. The joy of politics.
 
nobbie48 said:
There must be thousands of similar situations. Party A wants to, in their opinion, make something better at a cost to party B and a change in the status quo will mean added costs to group party C who are an accumulation of the clients of party B. Group party D is a bunch that doesn't use the product / service and doesn't care one way or the other. Party B isn't lily white and Party A doesn't care about the finances of parties B or C.

Throw in egos, attitudes, Facebook, tweets and twitters and we get so wrapped up in the melee that we forget that party A forgot to turn off the stove. The house burns down. The joy of politics.
Click to expand...
WTF, Have you been into the wine or whiskey early this morning
 
Back to the 172 /282 issue.

DUI is different as a driver can't immediately realize the errors of his ways safely drive way and hopefully there will be breathalyzer or video evidence (Walk a straight line etc). Some form of immediate suspension is necessary for safety reasons.

With the speeding issue what evidence is presented in court by the police? Are there body or dash cam videos? For speeding, a photo radar image? or is it just pacing or "It looked like 50 over"?

Similar for stunting a wheelie of example. Dash or body cam?

Are there ways for tracking abuse so a self serving cop can't finance a bar by kick backs.

With all the attention given to Covid I wonder how many people notice this continued infringements on the due process system?

Is this the Ford government trying to draw attention away from their mishandling of the covid mess?
 
bitzz said:
Where did you get the idea that Ontario roads are supposed to be "FUN"?
Click to expand...
So true.

The roads were not designed for fun. What if motorcycle plates were the same price as car plates and the extra money went to a designated fund to develop race tracks? In the centre field of the track there would be a stunt pad.

Gentlemen, start your cheque books.
 
nobbie48 said:
So true.

The roads were not designed for fun. What if motorcycle plates were the same price as car plates and the extra money went to a designated fund to develop race tracks? In the centre field of the track there would be a stunt pad.

Gentlemen, start your cheque books.
Click to expand...
I dont think the cruiser riders would appreciate that.
 
We're all free to emmigrate. Based on this thread I would think a bunch you are already planning to leave. Send me a postcard from the land of greener grass.
 
timtune said:
We're all free to emmigrate. Based on this thread I would think a bunch you are already planning to leave. Send me a postcard from the land of greener grass.
Click to expand...
I think Canada is a good country but I am disappointed that it isn't great. Just because someone doesn't have competition it doesn't mean they don't have to try their best.

If you're so far ahead in a race that a win is guaranteed do you slack off or try for the track record?

To me, the gestapo tactics of HTA 172 is proof that the government doesn't have the brains to correct problems. If your kids misbehave do you horsewhip them and then ask for an explanation?

HTA 282 is just a bigger whip.
 
GreyGhost said:
I hate this. I have no problem with increasing penalties after conviction but increasing roadside penalties is horrendous especially after there have been clearly documented cases of abuse (and most 172 tickets don't result in a conviction for that charge).

www.680news.com

Ontario introducing harsher penalties for speeding, stunt driving

Roadside driver's licence suspensions for street racing increased an additional 52% between March and August 2020 compared to the same period in 2019.
www.680news.com www.680news.com

Transportation Minister Caroline Mulroney said the Moving Ontarians More Safely Act sends a clear message to drivers.

The legislation would see roadside vehicle impoundment increase from seven days to 14 days, and roadside driver’s licence suspensions extend from seven days to 30 days.

It also introduces escalating post-conviction licence suspensions, up to a lifetime ban for a fourth infraction.

It would also lower the threshold for laying street racing charges for those travelling 40 km/h or more above the posted limit on roads where the speed limit is less than 80 km/h.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, while there has clearly been abuse of HTA172, I don't think that any officers have actually been convicted of such abuse.
 
GreyGhost said:
It's not just speed. Because the cop said so is sufficient to catch the charge. I haven't read 282 but 172 had a lot of options for when the charge was issued. Speed was the one I had the least problem with as it was clearly defined. Now, they keep dropping speed limits artificially lower in a quest for revenue and to drive people away from certain roads. Are you really going 40 over if they dropped the speed limit by 30 km/h for political reasons?
Click to expand...
I suggest that you read Ont Reg 455/07, which defines the current parameters of HTA 172. Specifically the following:

Definition, “race” and “contest”​



2. (1) For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, “race” and “contest” include any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:...

... 3. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by, (i). driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed,...


(2) In this section,
“marked departure from the lawful rate of speed” means a rate of speed that may limit the ability of a driver of a motor vehicle to prudently adjust to changing circumstances on the highway. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (2).

In other words it's a judgment call by the officer.
 
nobbie48 said:
Back to the 172 /282 issue.

DUI is different as a driver can't immediately realize the errors of his ways safely drive way and hopefully there will be breathalyzer or video evidence (Walk a straight line etc). Some form of immediate suspension is necessary for safety reasons.

With the speeding issue what evidence is presented in court by the police? Are there body or dash cam videos? For speeding, a photo radar image? or is it just pacing or "It looked like 50 over"?

Similar for stunting a wheelie of example. Dash or body cam?

Are there ways for tracking abuse so a self serving cop can't finance a bar by kick backs.

With all the attention given to Covid I wonder how many people notice this continued infringements on the due process system?

Is this the Ford government trying to draw attention away from their mishandling of the covid mess?
Click to expand...
I made this argument repeatedly, when HTA 172 was proposed, including to those in government when they made statements about how the DUI laws allowed for the same sort of penalty, prior to conviction. When an impaired driver is stopped he is still impaired, once the stop is completed. An accused speeder is no longer speeding, after the stop is completed. Silence.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
I made this argument repeatedly, when HTA 172 was proposed, including to those in government when they made statements about how the DUI laws allowed for the same sort of penalty, prior to conviction. When an impaired driver is stopped he is still impaired, once the stop is completed. An accused speeder is no longer speeding, after the stop is completed. Silence.
Click to expand...
Where is the focus?

The latest information I saw was that distracted driving was right up with DUI as the biggest risk to drivers. Poorly trained or skilled drivers have to be up there as well. So who do the politicians go after????????

If they went after the distracted drivers the same way or ones that didn't deserve licences they would lose the popularity contest that gets them elected.

How are developers going to sell houses in Cowpatch Junction where there is no public transit if people actually had to know how to drive to work?

There is no question that exuberant drivers have killed innocent people but not at the rate that Covid has. This is a distraction. "See. We're looking after your well being"
 
nobbie48 said:
Where is the focus?

The latest information I saw was that distracted driving was right up with DUI as the biggest risk to drivers. Poorly trained or skilled drivers have to be up there as well. So who do the politicians go after????????

If they went after the distracted drivers the same way or ones that didn't deserve licences they would lose the popularity contest that gets them elected.

How are developers going to sell houses in Cowpatch Junction where there is no public transit if people actually had to know how to drive to work?

There is no question that exuberant drivers have killed innocent people but not at the rate that Covid has. This is a distraction. "See. We're looking after your well being"
Click to expand...
Racing is already a Criminal Code charge. Dangerous Operation is already a Criminal Code charge. Operation Without Due Care and Attention is already a serious charge under the HTA. This law is/was a shortcut and what I generally refer to as "governance by sound-bite", as the result of a few high profile incidents.
 
Ontario government are hiding behind the words "Race" and "Stunting".
This will affect your average driver more.
Doing 140 km on the highway, your car is gone for 2 weeks
You accelerated a little to hard at the lights and your tires squeal - that's stunting!
They are giving harasser fines and more power to law enforcement.
Taking away your basic rights on the spot
Making more money for their tow truck buddies.
This is only the beginning for the war against drivers
this is just around the corner
 
justride said:
Ontario government are hiding behind the words "Race" and "Stunting".
This will affect your average driver more.
Doing 140 km on the highway, your car is gone for 2 weeks
You accelerated a little to hard at the lights and your tires squeal - that's stunting!
They are giving harasser fines and more power to law enforcement.
Taking away your basic rights on the spot
Making more money for their tow truck buddies.
This is only the beginning for the war against drivers
this is just around the corner
Click to expand...
If two vehicles are at a stop light when it turns green A) one gets ahead of the other and can be charged under HTA 172 for out accelerating the other or B) they both go at the same speed and they get charged with obstructing traffic.

At some point yearly safety tests will be required and non OEM equipment will be banned. Modified exhausts, tinted windows, radios, custom wheels, non-stock tire sizes, lighting systems all could be on the chopping block.

I disagree with your "This is only the beginning for the war against drivers". It is the beginning of a police state. Hitler didn't take over Germany in a one day coup. Federal bill C-10 is the start of censorship. HTA 172 is punishment before conviction.

Even arts grants can be a political weapon. Write a song praising the present government and get a grant. Knock them and starve.

The average Canadian is so obsessed with the latest cell phones that they ignore that cell phones cause more collisions and injuries than the alleged HTA 172 offenders.
 
Well, that's it. Expect high speed runs coming. Hell, some people are likely to make a sport of it.

All this time, and these idiots still don't understand that the more you close your fist, the more that runs through your fingers.
 
The word Law, is derived from Lee. Lee, in chinese is known as the natural order, for example, the grain in wood, or clouds in the sky can be known as Lee.

There was a dynasty that came to rule, and the emperor actually removed all Laws, expect one, which was man cannot rape. It is recorded to be one of the safest times the country ever saw, everything was based of an ethical and moral principle, a so called, Lee. Obviously, the China we see today is very different. I know a few friends who's families left communist countries in the EU, and Russia, who have all said that what they have seen happen here in the last few months, is very similar to what they saw back home and the young generation is oblivious to it, until it hits them hard.
 
Shaman said:
Well, that's it. Expect high speed runs coming. Hell, some people are likely to make a sport of it.

All this time, and these idiots still don't understand that the more you close your fist, the more that runs through your fingers.
Click to expand...
I think that we both already know that, for some, this already is a sport ;)
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Racing is already a Criminal Code charge. Dangerous Operation is already a Criminal Code charge. Operation Without Due Care and Attention is already a serious charge under the HTA. This law is/was a shortcut and what I generally refer to as "governance by sound-bite", as the result of a few high profile incidents.
Click to expand...

jesus, you hit that spot on.
its a society thing. average person is either too dumb or doesn't have the time to research past headlines and videos these days. They take whatever the media (social media included) throws out there.
Politics now revolves around these kind of optics. Knee jerk reactions to sway the general public.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom