Now that was slick.

[Mad Mike]

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say there... but I'm pretty sure I disagree with the inference.

Who remembers Mohammed Abu Al-Qumsan? His sad story made the news in August when he went to register the birth of his twin boys, only to return home home find his newborn twins, his wife and his mother all killed by an Israeli missile attack.
Pretty sad huh?
There's more to it. Not a random missile, or collateral damage. The Israeli's put a low explosive anti personnel missile into his apartment to shut up his wife that had twitter following and was critical of the Israeli government. There WAS pictures (can't find them now) and the windows in the next door apartment were intact. The wife had just got home from work, the Israeli's were watching the apartment, they knew who was inside.
So do we think the wife was hiding behind her children Mike? I defy any human to defend these actions.

OK, I'll clarify what I'm saying.

First, I'm never going to deny this conflict is void of atrocities, nor will I ever condone or justify atrocities in war.

Next, it was an analogy. The point being made was Hamas and Hezbollah have a propensity to use human shields with little regard for their lives.

Concerning your story, I did see it, and I did read it, I did find it incredibly sad. I like to look at things through both lenses when I can, so I looked up the Instagram account his wife Dr. Jumann Arfa was using to see if it was anything that might be considered dangerous enough to set off an attack. Her account was gone, deleted swiftly before the stories hit the press.

 

[Mad Mike]

Yep, if the Palestinians would only submit to the genocide, there would be no reason for war.
You're right, it's their OWN fault. When faced with the choices of: lie down and die or we'll kill you... I'd say the choice is obvious

I don't look at those as their choices.

Had there not been a terror attack last October, Palestine would still be standing - that was a choice.. They would still be in a difficult situation, but they wouldn't have 40,000 dead and their country would not have been leveled. Egypt and Israel would still be controlling their borders, and immigration for Palestinians to other Arab countries would still be impossible, but the opportunity to talk and work on a 2 state solution would still be there..

Meaningful strides toward a peaceful middle east might have advanced with the Abrhams Accord talks. The PA and PLO were amenable to
a 2 state solution but capitulated whenever talks started. Hamas has never been willing, all they have ever offered is to accept Israel as a political party - that too is a choice.

 

[jc100]

I don't look at those as their choices.

Had there not been a terror attack last October, Palestine would still be standing - that was a choice.. They would still be in a difficult situation, but they wouldn't have 40,000 dead and their country would not have been leveled. Egypt and Israel would still be controlling their borders, and immigration for Palestinians to other Arab countries would still be impossible, but the opportunity to talk and work on a 2 state solution would still be there..

Meaningful strides toward a peaceful middle east might have advanced with the Abrhams Accord talks. The PA and PLO were amenable to
a 2 state solution but capitulated whenever talks started. Hamas has never been willing, all they have ever offered is to accept Israel as a political party - that too is a choice.

Come on Mike. This horrific event didn’t happen in a vacuum. There’s about a thousand UN resolutions going back decades that show a constant particular treatment of the Palestinian population in stark contrast to the Israeli population of a different faith. Occupation is overlooked, illegal settlements overlooked, an embassy being moved is more than symbolic it’s a further example of one sided treatment that is again overlooked. Refugees in other countries conveniently forgotten about.

When you treat certain inhabitants of a country worse than you treat others that’s apartheid. Last time we had that people were rightly up in arms.

Do you know what hasn’t been tried in all the decades of this one sided treatment? Being one sided towards the Palestinians for a change which would actually only be ensuring that Israel comply with those resolutions and the findings of the international criminal court.

 

[Mad Mike]

Come on Mike. This horrific event didn’t happen in a vacuum. There’s about a thousand UN resolutions going back decades that show a constant particular treatment of the Palestinian population in stark contrast to the Israeli population of a different faith. Occupation is overlooked, illegal settlements overlooked, an embassy being moved is more than symbolic it’s a further example of one sided treatment that is again overlooked. Refugees in other countries conveniently forgotten about.

When you treat certain inhabitants of a country worse than you treat others that’s apartheid. Last time we had that people were rightly up in arms.

Do you know what hasn’t been tried in all the decades of this one sided treatment? Being one sided towards the Palestinians for a change which would actually only be ensuring that Israel comply with those resolutions and the findings of the international criminal court.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m not on anyone’s side. Like most I’d like to see this end, and for both states to find a peaceful coexistince.

The Palestinians will always be the smaller dog. Perhaps they might make it so the Israelis are unable to exercise their right to defend. Then help the rest of the world trust they will move forward peacefully.

 

[bitzz]

I’m not on anyone’s side

The tone of every post you have made of this broad subject says different

 

[jc100]

I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m not on anyone’s side. Like most I’d like to see this end, and for both states to find a peaceful coexistince.

The Palestinians will always be the smaller dog. Perhaps they might make it so the Israelis are unable to exercise their right to defend. Then help the rest of the world trust they will move forward peacefully.

I just want some fair treatment here. I’ve only ever seen this be a one way street and I’ve seen the results from this in person on the ground.

 

[GreyGhost]

I just want some fair treatment here. I’ve only ever seen this be a one way street and I’ve seen the results from this in person on the ground.

Fair? Like watching a concert and getting kidnapped and murdered? War isn't fair.

 

[jc100]

Fair? Like watching a concert and getting kidnapped and murdered? War isn't fair.

When was the last Palestinian open air concert like that just out of interest?

 

[Priller]

While I'm deeply sympathetic to the families who lost loved ones from that concert, setting up an event purporting to celebrate freedom just outside the world's largest prison is akin to Nathan's holding a hot dog eating competition in South Darfur...

 

[Mad Mike]

While I'm deeply sympathetic to the families who lost loved ones from that concert, setting up an event purporting to celebrate freedom just outside the world's largest prison is akin to Nathan's holding a hot dog eating competition in South Darfur...

I doubt the festival was setup there to antagonize Gazans. It was a bohemian affair, more like holding a festival in Haight Ashbury because that’s where you find bohemians.

 

[Priller]

I doubt the festival was setup there to antagonize Gazans. It was a bohemian affair, more like holding a festival in Haight Ashbury because that’s where you find bohemians.

Sorry, wut? The desert outside the prison walls surrounding Gaza is like Haight Ashbury but for ravers?

Sarcasm aside, intent to antagonise or no, it shows an incredible amount of either antipathy or ignorance. Settlements aren't built to antagonise Palestinians in the West Bank, either, they're just Zionists exercising what they see as their God-given superiority to other peoples and their natural right to simply take whatever they lay their eyes on. The antagonism is just a fringe benefit.

 

[POWERMAN]

Just curious, between Israel and Palestine, which one of these people would support us Canadians if we were in trouble?

 

[GreyGhost]

Just curious, between Israel and Palestine, which one of these people would support us Canadians if we were in trouble?

I am sure both have a ton of "canadians" that are happy to call our government for help if things get dodgy. As they were only here long enough to get papers, I have zero faith that those "Canadians" would help us. It is a one way street. As for the countries, also both not much help. In specific circumstances, either one may be able to lend expertise (eg airline security, attacking/defending as the the underdog, etc) but I don't know if they would.

 

[jc100]

Just curious, between Israel and Palestine, which one of these people would support us Canadians if we were in trouble?

How about a country that is currently in trouble as an example, Ukraine. Israel hasn’t been exactly forthcoming with much as they have some extremely wealthy Russian donors.

When Roman Abramovitch, the Russian oligarch, ended up losing his football club and yachts and generally being ostracized Israel welcomed him.

 

[POWERMAN]

Then why should we be bothered about the affairs of other people/nations when we have enough to worry about in our own country?

I've never understood how/why our federal government can give out financial aid to places that don't give a rat's behind about us.

Canada first! Help our poor and then IF we have excess consider supporting the external affairs of other places...just my .02

 

[jc100]

Then why should we be bothered about the affairs of other people/nations when we have enough to worry about in our own country?

I've never understood how/why our federal government can give out financial aid to places that don't give a rat's behind about us.

Canada first! Help our poor and then IF we have excess consider supporting the external affairs of other places...just my .02

Because we can walk and chew gum. It isn’t a zero sum proposition. Sometimes doing the right thing is what civilized countries do. Look at our armed forces, the Canadian Army used to be the envy around the world when it came to peacekeeping. Mostly in countries that didn’t give a hoot about us either.

 

[Dirty Frank]

Not often do i regret starting a thread but this one damn.

 

[POWERMAN]

Sometimes doing the right thing is what civilized countries do.

I have to disagree with that thinking.
Yes - having coalitions do have a time and place.

But if developing countries do not have the capability to improve governance within their own borders, manage their own funds etc after so many years - f em.
Yet somehow their populations keep growing while they have a lot of civil war, gang crime and such while our population dwindles.

I believe our military needs more funding, a lot of our equipment needs to be upgraded and our defensive and offensive capabilities need to be improved upon. I love what places like Poland and Hungary are doing.

Look at how China treated us when they held back the two Michael's in retaliation for Meng.

 

[timtune]

I have to disagree with that thinking.

That speaks volume.

By the way if that's your feeling why bring up china? It appears they think like you do.

 

[Mad Mike]

I'd say this thread is now a:

I'm out.