No accountability yet for G20 Toronto Police Crimes

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RetroGrouch said:
I was on Spadina and Queen when they started burning the police car near Steve's Music. All I saw was a bunch of gawkers taking photos to post on their facebook page. And from all the news footage, the "protesters" were just voyeurs living out their Pulitzer Prize photojournalist fantasies.
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that right there makes you, according to some, an idiot deserving of being arrested. you were one of those 'gawkers' by association.

you should not have been there, period, in their logic.

now how would you feel if you, just standing there, got kettled and then detained? do you really think that when a cordon of police close off all exits that you would have been protected from their abuse of power? do you really think you would have deserved what was coming to you?
 
short stop said:
Yeah, actually, I *do* think they'd do many things differently. Do you think TPS members are overly happy with how things went down those two days? PR-wise I can't think of any recent event that has damaged the police force's confidence with the public as much as this.

Unless of course you're one of those who subscribe to this conspiracy theory that top brass were in cahoots with politicians to use this as deliberate exercise to erode civil liberties in order to incrementally implement a police state. For those who truly believe that - you give ENTIRELY too much credit to those in power. :rolleyes:
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the tps service don't have to be happy with this. in fact, i know a few who were unhappy with the whole g20 thing weeks before it happened. they knew it would be a ****-show. and their public image did take a battering, for some, but clearly not for others as some posters here suggest.

the point i wrote however, was that if it were to go down again, does anyone have confidence it would actually be different the next time?

i think the honest answer is, until things really change, no.
 
mmmnaked said:
Clearly you missed the point, or are being intentionally obtuse

For every retard we saw in the media putting bricks through glass, there were thousands of completely peaceful protesters trying to pass on a message.

The job of the police should be to arrest those who are actually causing havoc, and the job of the media should've been to cover the peaceful protesters. If the dumbass looters and hooligans don't get any airtime, and if the cops crack down on them in a timely manner, the situation would've unfolded differently.
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oh my god, this is a sign of the apocalypse. i actually agree with mmmnaked. . .

did someone jack your account?

i agree 100%--why didn't the police put the boots to the actual criminals, who numbered less than 150, on saturday? the ones that were clearly garbed entirely in black, and were out in front of the crowds? i've written this many times before--i have zero problem with the police goons going after the actual criminals. why didn't they do so?

and yes, the situation would have unfolded very, very differently.
 
afong56 said:
that right there makes you, according to some, an idiot deserving of being arrested. you were one of those 'gawkers' by association.
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I was in Chinatown grabbing some sandwiches, I didn't even see the burning car, only the rubberneckers enjoying their show. I went home, ate my food and watched the shitshow on the news. So no, I didn't cry about how I was wrongfully detained since I didn't bother going to where all the crap was going down. I exercised my civil right by getting the hell out of there, a place I didn't need to be. Worked out just fine.
 
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RetroGrouch said:
I thought those were saboteurs planted by the cops so they could have a reason to bust heads? Har har, conspiracy nuts.
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There's no theory, it's a true conspiracy. The police have been caught red-handed doing it - the Montreal police were forced to admit it in (iirc) 2007. You DO know that you can be arrested and jailed for conspiracy, right?
 
Shaman said:
and the cops were on top of them with force, threatening them unlawfully, demanding identification unlawfully, searching unlawfully, arresting unlawfully, beating people illegally, making up "the law" as they went and treating the citizens like dirt - many of whom were not even part of the protest.
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Yes, with force. Law enFORCEment. Not lawsuckyourdickment. It's not unlawful for the police to demand ID. It's not unlawful for the police to search you. It's not unlawful to arrest. It's not illegal to use escalated force if necessary and since those are all NOT unlawful then nothing was made up like you say..

And I find it funny that you say many were not there to protest. Which just proves that they were there to gawk and contribute to the BS for nothing other than to be part of it without having anything to say. Also, many also means that some were there to smash stuff and burn cars. Hmmmmm.... just like some cops are good and some are bad but you say all of them do the "illegal" stuff you mentioned. All.

Here's a comparison, and I know these are weak but say, just for argument sake a few hundred people decided to lawfully stand around your home and protest you because you ride a motorcycle. They claim motorcycles cause death. That's their right to do so apparently. They are there yelling for hours. You come out to ask them to leave but they spit on you, poke you in the chest and then one of them (your not sure which) throws a brick through your window. What would you do? Seriously now, think hard.

Would you go at them with "illegal force"?

Or, would you call the police?

;)

Last thoughts on this.

The prolls will always cry that they don't have enough. They want a handout and something for nothing. They don't want to work hard and be successful and they hate those that did and are. They couldn't even have success in their own life but they think they know what is best for the rest of us. That will never change.

Canada isn't the worlds shot caller. It has to play with the big boys and G whatevers are the forum for just that. They won't stop and we won't stop bending to their will.

Protesting doesn't effect any change in Canada. The fat cats don't hear it, don't see it and don't care. I know this is a fact.They just think of ways to make it harder for honest people to be heard.

It is stupid to hold these things in populated areas because the end result is always the same. It costs US millions of dollars. There is always the few that use it as an opportunity to destroy other peoples property and innocent people get caught up in mob mentality and get arrested and charged.

If you want to make changes to the country (actual changes) start a political party and win the hearts and minds of the people. Se if the majority wants your hopes and dreams and even shares your point of view. Just be able to do a better job in all aspects of running a Country. Thats all. The protesters think they have all the answers so obviously it's no problem at all.

Or, have a nice big old revolution. Kill them all and seize power.

Either or.

Throwing a hissy fit in a store is what children do when they want something and don't understand why they cant have it. AKA: Public demonstration.

:)

Good thread.
 
I would offer that we shift this conversation to WHERE DID THE MONEY GO.
We don't have money to keep swimming pools and hockey rinks open but have lots to make a fake lake.
We also LOST our seat at the UN Security Council that year. The first time ever iirc.

I think if the protesters shifted the conversation to accountability of funds the general public will start looking closer.

Where did the money go?
 
D23 said:
Yes, with force. Law enFORCEment. Not lawsuckyourdickment. It's not unlawful for the police to demand ID. It's not unlawful for the police to search you. It's not unlawful to arrest. It's not illegal to use escalated force if necessary and since those are all NOT unlawful then nothing was made up like you say..
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It is ALL those things! Your consitutional (charter of) rights says that you do not have to surrender papers without good reason. It's a gray area, but they made it entirely black and white during the G20 - unlawfully. It's not even my opinion, several judges are outraged that it happened. It is unlawful to search you for the same reason - you have a right to your papers and possessions without there being a reason for the search which the police have reasonable suspicion that they will find something - and a warrant is usually required to be issued from a judge to do so. It's very illegal for a cop to assault another person without a strong reason to do so, as well - unless the person is being taken into custody for a LAWFUL reason, no use of force is justified.

You are a true bootlicker. Never ever tell anyone again that you do not support cops.

And I find it funny that you say many were not there to protest. Which just proves that they were there to gawk and contribute to the BS for nothing other than to be part of it without having anything to say.
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Nice try at logic, but you failed miserably. There are people who were walking from or to work, and people who were there as part of the media to record the event, that were unlawfully detained and treated like animals in a detention area. Basically, your arguments are failure all the way down.

Also, many also means that some were there to smash stuff and burn cars.
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And guess who the cops left alone, until they made sure that there was PLENTY of time for the cameras to get some P.R. pictures? Everybody knows it, and the ombudsman made it part of his official report.

Here's a comparison, and I know these are weak but say, just for argument sake a few hundred people decided to lawfully stand around your home and protest you because you ride a motorcycle. They claim motorcycles cause death. That's their right to do so apparently. They are there yelling for hours. You come out to ask them to leave but they spit on you, poke you in the chest and then one of them (your not sure which) throws a brick through your window. What would you do? Seriously now, think hard.
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Luckily for me, that's a tremendously weak argument. They would be destroying my property, threatening my person and causing excessive noise, all of which are LEGAL and LAWFUL reasons for the police to get involved. But we aren't talking about anything like that here.

The prolls will always cry that they don't have enough. They want a handout and something for nothing. They don't want to work hard and be successful and they hate those that did and are. They couldn't even have success in their own life but they think they know what is best for the rest of us. That will never change.
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It's spelled "proles" and while there is a grain of truth in what you are saying, the majority of the people that were at the G20 were not those kind of people. However, those are the people that media, in lockstep with government and enforcement edicts, made sure to show everyone.

Protesting doesn't effect any change in Canada. The fat cats don't hear it, don't see it and don't care. I know this is a fact.They just think of ways to make it harder for honest people to be heard.
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Have you seen any evidence at all that there is any way to make yourself heard in this political climate? At least the people made a big stink, caused a lot of bad P.R. for the police and government, and probably opened a lot of eyes wide at how criminal the establishment will act when they are let off their leash. That's worth something.

It is stupid to hold these things in populated areas because the end result is always the same. It costs US millions of dollars. There is always the few that use it as an opportunity to destroy other peoples property and innocent people get caught up in mob mentality and get arrested and charged.
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I actually agree with most of this. I still support their efforts, however.

If you want to make changes to the country (actual changes) start a political party and win the hearts and minds of the people. Se if the majority wants your hopes and dreams and even shares your point of view. Just be able to do a better job in all aspects of running a Country. Thats all. The protesters think they have all the answers so obviously it's no problem at all.
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Bull. If you're REALLY lucky and you try REALLY hard, you might get a few seats in parliament and will have to spend your careers and your energy fighting a losing battle. The powers no more respect the input of a small minority party than they do Joe Sixpack from Main Street. Just ask the green party or the reform party how easy it is to make a difference in politics. Not to mention that to beat the big two parties, you have to act just like them - greedy, larcenous and disengenuous. Not that it matters because most people (and I strongly suspect, you) do not have the mental ability to deal with more than two parties anyway.

Or, have a nice big old revolution. Kill them all and seize power.
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It might come to this. It has all throughout history.
 
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My post got lost.

That Police car was nothing more than bait.
It was a plant just as some of the "protestors" were plants to stir things up.

If the protestors were silent and just sat there with signs, it would have been more interesting.
Just complete silence.

The Government would have to explain why they spent all that money on security.

Shaman, I would suggest that you get people to focus on how the Government wasted their tax dollars on making new lakes.
People are sheep and sadly stupid to not understand or appreciate what was really occurring.

Focus on the money.
Why wasn't this event held in another Province such as New Foundland?
 
Shaman said:
It might come to this. It has all throughout history.
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It won't come to that here. This is a pussified society. Nobody has the balls to do anything more than smash a window and run away. That's probably why this is such an issue. People hate the fact that when it comes down to it, they will turtle and give up. People that have the guts to revolt don't cry so hard and so long about things like this. That's an "all through history" fact as well.

Sad though. People used to fight for what they believed. Now the tweet for it and "like" words on the internet.

Actus non verba. not the other way around.

Anyways....... there were a few personal insults and a "spelling nazi" in there but that's OK. You have to work with what you have I guess.

Freedom of speech to you seems to be the freedom to say what you want as long as it's in line with your way of thinking. If not then the person saying it "doesn't have the mental ability" is a "boot licker" and 'failed miserably". Kinda hypocritical to me but I get it. You did have some valid points. :)

For what it's worth I never thought it was handled well. I think they were not even remotely prepared to deal with the animals they had to deal with that day but that's what happens when they don't have good leadership and a solid policy to do so. Again, they shouldn't put these events in the downtown core of the largest city and expect to be able to handle it well. That is failure. No argument there.
 
sonnythebull said:
I think you reap what you sow 99 percent of the time and MOST people got what they deserved.
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If MOST people got what they deserved then the charges brought against them would have been imposed...instead the MAJORITY of those detained had their cases DISMISSED.
 
D23 said:
Also, there is no LAW about name tags. Feel free to quote the LAW about them though. It's a policy. A McDonalds employee has to wear a name tag. You can see the difference right?

Every officer had their badge number predominantly displayed for identification purposes. I can understand not wanting their names displayed to criminals and terrorists. They don't want their familys to be put at risk. A choice they made. Pretty sure they got hammered for it already.
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"The intentional non-wearing of a name badge by an officer carrying out his or her duties is an extremely serious offence. It is a fundamental breach of duty for police officers to remove their name badges so that they may excercise their powers with intentional anonymity."

- Independent Civilian Review Into Matters Relating to the G20 Summit
http://www.g20review.ca/info.html
 
Skipped right over that part about the badge number I see. A badge number is in fact more unique to an officer. Might be a few Smiths or Scotts etc. but there is only one. 13432

Never said it wasn't against an internal policy. I know it was made mandatory in 06 (or 08).

Said it wasn't a law....

Right there ^. You read it, quoted it, and still didn't see. :(
 
Brian P said:
The professional response (by police management), when tasked with this and not having enough time to prepare, should have been to state that they could not do what they were being asked to do, in the time available to do it. Ordinarily this would have been done in private, but with ample notes records taken so that there was no uncertainty that they were not pleased with the situation and would prefer not to have to take responsibility for it. (I've seen no evidence that this was done.)

Failing that, the professional response by any individual officer, should have been not unlike this. Tasked with something that violates individual constitutional rights, they should have either refused, or made it VERY clearly known that they disagreed with the course of action.

Stuff like this is part of being "professional", and it really doesn't matter what the profession happens to be.
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So I take it, you were in all the meetings with the police leading up to it. They did what professionals do, they tried to do the best job possible under the circumstances. It has been stated many times in this thread, but I will say it again, anyone being there to protest knowing what was happening got exactly what they deserved. You can't fix stupid.
 
oilycreek said:
It has been stated many times in this thread, but I will say it again, anyone being there to protest knowing what was happening got exactly what they deserved.
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The MAJORITY that was there to protest were exercising their right to peaceful assembly as granted to them by the Canadian Charter.
 
clutch said:
The MAJORITY that was there to protest were exercising their right to peaceful assembly as granted to them by the Canadian Charter.
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True. But, as soon as ANY part of that assembly turns violent, then they are in violation by putting others at risk.
Sure, most didn't go there to do damage, and most didn't participate, but those idiots in black ruined it for all those that went there with the idea of being peaceful.
If they are to be pi$$ed off at anyone, it's the idiots that were there to cause problems, not the cops that were there trying to deal with too many people.

Just by being there when you didn't need to be, you are supporting those going for attention, and the ones getting the attention were the ones that were there doing things they KNEW were wrong and had to hide there faces. You would think, if they were so proud on their stance, they would want people to know who they are. Shows just how big of Pu$$ys they are.
It's like laughing when the class clown picks on some kid. Sure, you didn't do anything wrong, but by laughing (which is what the clown wants) you are encouraging the behavior, just like being there, giving these idiots attention (which is why they are there) you are encouraging them.

If people had a clue, and wanted the cops to get rid of the problem smoothly and efficiently, they would have LEFT, and let the cops put their limited manpower to that task, and once the problem was over, they can all join back together, hold hands and have their peaceful demonstration.
Not a hard concept.
I don't care what people were protesting, as it doesn't matter since that wasn't the issue.

How many have you have been swarmed with people where there was a possibility for violence? I doubt many have, so that's why I'm taking the side of the TPS here, as I can totally understand what type of a stress filled situation that is.
 
rmemedic said:
True. But, as soon as ANY part of that assembly turns violent, then they are in violation by putting others at risk.
Sure, most didn't go there to do damage, and most didn't participate, but those idiots in black ruined it for all those that went there with the idea of being peaceful.
If they are to be pi$$ed off at anyone, it's the idiots that were there to cause problems, not the cops that were there trying to deal with too many people.

Just by being there when you didn't need to be, you are supporting those going for attention, and the ones getting the attention were the ones that were there doing things they KNEW were wrong and had to hide there faces. You would think, if they were so proud on their stance, they would want people to know who they are. Shows just how big of Pu$$ys they are.
It's like laughing when the class clown picks on some kid. Sure, you didn't do anything wrong, but by laughing (which is what the clown wants) you are encouraging the behavior, just like being there, giving these idiots attention (which is why they are there) you are encouraging them.

If people had a clue, and wanted the cops to get rid of the problem smoothly and efficiently, they would have LEFT, and let the cops put their limited manpower to that task, and once the problem was over, they can all join back together, hold hands and have their peaceful demonstration.
Not a hard concept.
I don't care what people were protesting, as it doesn't matter since that wasn't the issue.

How many have you have been swarmed with people where there was a possibility for violence? I doubt many have, so that's why I'm taking the side of the TPS here, as I can totally understand what type of a stress filled situation that is.
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I agree on your point. The TPS were given very little time to prepare for such a huge event. The effect was stress filled situation. They were also misinformed:

"Many of the images and much of the language used in the training materials to depict protesters was unbalanced. Representations of rioting crowds, violent protesters, and anarchists let the impression that all protesters at the G20 Summit would engage in destructive protest activity and that police officers would be required to respond with aggressive crowd control measures."
- Independent Civilian Review into Matters Relating to the G20 Summit
http://www.g20review.ca/report.html

The TPS were amp'd to do damage before the SMALL GROUP of black bloc protesters started smashing some windows.

People, the point of the post is that all the reports are out. All of them disagree with the actions of the TPS and still there's no accountability. Something stinks.
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