New rider, will attempt the impossible...

El Cockblock said:
Nope, no relatives or buddies at the MTO (wish I had), it's all through the proper way.

I do not plan on drinking and riding either. Nada.

I already had the privilege with my G class and I just want to have the option back for when I'm driving my car, plus the reduced insurance.
Click to expand...

The M2 class restrictions do not apply to your G class (except insofar as if you get your licence suspended for violating M2 conditions, it will affect your G).

How do you expect us to believe you're going to work the system to get your M ahead of schedule if you can't figure that out?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
giesen said:
The M2 class restrictions do not apply to your G class (except insofar as if you get your licence suspended for violating M2 conditions, it will affect your G).

How do you expect us to believe you're going to work the system to get your M ahead of schedule if you can't figure that out?
Click to expand...


Well giesen, let me tell you that anyone who has G/M2 and doesn't know MTO's regulations, will be in for a VERY BIG surprise the next time they get pulled over while driving, after having one or two beers with lunch.

One fact is that M1/M2 holders are novice drivers under the law, regardless of their previous riding experience. Having said that, please read in the following order:


http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/gradu/index.shtml#BAC


http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/gradu/index.shtml#escalating

If you have a G class and an M2 class (hybrid), the most restrictive regulations apply to the license as a whole.

Am I gaining your trust now? ;)
 
Last edited:
El Cockblock said:
Well giesen, let me tell you that anyone who has G/M2 and doesn't know MTO's regulations, will be in for a VERY BIG surprise the next time they get pulled over while driving, after having one or two beers with lunch.

One fact is that M1/M2 holders are novice drivers under the law, regardless of their previous riding experience. Having said that, please read in the following order:


http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/gradu/index.shtml#BAC


http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/gradu/index.shtml#escalating

If you have a G class and an M2 class (hybrid), the most restrictive regulations apply to the license as a whole.

Am I gaining your trust now? ;)
Click to expand...

Where do you see "If you have a G class and an M2 class (hybrid), the most restrictive regulations apply to the license as a whole."

From the link you posted:

Effective August 1, 2010, novice or hybrid drivers (drivers that hold a novice licence and full licence, e.g., G/M2) will be subject to Novice Driver Escalating Sanctions. These sanctions will apply if, within a five year period, you:


  • are convicted of violating any of the graduated licensing conditions;
  • are convicted of HTA offences that result in 4 or more demerit points; or,
  • receive a court-ordered suspension for an HTA offence that would have resulted in 4 or more demerit points

If you read a section or two below:

Drivers that hold a novice licence and full licence, e.g., G/M2.
The penalties for Escalating Sanctions are as follows:

  • 30-day licence suspension for the first occurrence; both full and novice driver’s licence will be suspended.
  • 90-day licence suspension for the second occurrence; both full and novice driver’s licence will be suspended.
  • Novice Licence cancellation for the third occurrence. Upon a third occurrence, your novice driver’s licence will be cancelled. You must re-apply to the graduated licensing program by passing a vision and knowledge test and paying all licensing fees. After you pass these tests, you will enter Level One and get a Class G1 licence. You must serve all the Level One and Level Two waiting periods and start as a new driver. You will not receive any driving experience credit from your previous novice class. Your full driver’s licence class will not be cancelled and a new licence card will be issued with your full class.
Note: If you receive a conviction for an escalating sanction offence but now hold a full class G driver’s licence, you will be required to serve the following:

  • 30-day licence suspension for the first occurrence;
  • 90-day licence suspension for the second occurrence; and
  • 90-day licence suspension for the third occurrence.

As you can see, they treat the classes differently for the purposes of Hybrid Novice licences (other than most penalties affect both classes). The novice restrictions only apply to your novice licence (M2), and there are no "graduated licencing conditions" attached to your G.
 
It can be done. It happened to me actually. My foreign motorcycle licence was not accepted, but with some explaination at the counter they agreed to accept my riding experience as the mandatory 2 years to a full M. A few keystrokes in the system and all the mandatory time was waived for me.

It is not impossible at all. If you can prove riding experience and you get a sympathetic teller, you can have it waived at their discretion.
 
awyala said:
It can be done. It happened to me actually. My foreign motorcycle licence was not accepted, but with some explaination at the counter they agreed to accept my riding experience as the mandatory 2 years to a full M. A few keystrokes in the system and all the mandatory time was waived for me.

It is not impossible at all. If you can prove riding experience and you get a sympathetic teller, you can have it waived at their discretion.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that's much different. You had a foreign licence, and they're just determining equivalency. My sister-in-law (who is Dutch), just came here and bypassed the entire graduated licencing program by merely writing the test. But she already held a licence in the Netherlands. What we're talking about here is someone is being licenced for the first time (in any country).
 
giesen said:
Yes, but that's much different. You had a foreign licence, and they're just determining equivalency. My sister-in-law (who is Dutch), just came here and bypassed the entire graduated licencing program by merely writing the test. But she already held a licence in the Netherlands. What we're talking about here is someone is being licenced for the first time (in any country).
Click to expand...

I dont think the OP has revealed too much. He may have an ace up his sleeve. As I said, there are teller-side exceptions, and maybe he is able to exploit one of them with something he is clearly not willing to reveal to us just yet. I am saying it IS possible though. You sister-in-law actally got a more favourable outcome than me...I still had to redo every stage test, I was only exempt from the time.

So that in and of itself suggests that slight circumstantial differences produce varied outcomes. The OP may have a circumstance that gets him some time exemption. It is not at all unbelievable.
 
awyala said:
I dont think the OP has revealed too much. He may have an ace up his sleeve. As I said, there are teller-side exceptions, and maybe he is able to exploit one of them with something he is clearly not willing to reveal to us just yet. I am saying it IS possible though. You sister-in-law actally got a more favourable outcome than me...I still had to redo every stage test, I was only exempt from the time.

So that in and of itself suggests that slight circumstantial differences produce varied outcomes. The OP may have a circumstance that gets him some time exemption. It is not at all unbelievable.
Click to expand...

BINGO! :D

I just wanted to confirm this with MTO before posting anything and making a fool out of myself. I can and WILL get serious time chopped off.

Same thing applies to me awyala, difference is that I have to get my foreign license certified by MTO, because it is not exchangeable as those of U.S., Switzerland etc.
 
giesen said:
Where do you see "If you have a G class and an M2 class (hybrid), the most restrictive regulations apply to the license as a whole."
Click to expand...

^^ This is me saying it, after reading this:

"Effective August 1, 2010, novice or hybrid drivers (drivers that hold a novice licence and full licence, e.g., G/M2) will be subject to Novice Driver Escalating Sanctions. These sanctions will apply if, within a five year period, you:

• are convicted of violating any of the graduated licensing conditions;
• are convicted of HTA offences that result in 4 or more demerit points; or,
• receive a court-ordered suspension for an HTA offence that would have resulted in 4 or more demerit points"

ERGO

"Effective August 1, 2010, both novice drivers of any age and all drivers 21 and under, regardless of licence class, must have a blood alcohol level of zero when operating a motor vehicle.

If you are a novice driver and are caught with any amount of alcohol in your blood, you will receive an immediate 24-hour roadside driver licence suspension. If convicted, will be subject to a fine from $60-$500 and will receive a suspension period as per the Novice Driver Escalating Sanction scheme, up to and including cancellation of the novice licence. You will also have to return to the start of GLS.

If you are a fully licensed driver who is 21 and under and you are caught with alcohol in your blood, you will receive a 24-hour roadside driver licence suspension. If convicted, you will be subject to a fine of $60-$500 and a 30-day licence suspension."


^^ This is where all G/M2 holders will get dinged if pulled over driving a car after having a drink.

If you still don't believe me, ask an officer, he can rectify this fo' sho'
 
Last edited:
El Cockblock said:
BINGO! :D

I just wanted to confirm this with MTO before posting anything and making a fool out of myself. I can and WILL get serious time chopped off.

Same thing applies to me awyala, difference is that I have to get my foreign license certified by MTO, because it is not exchangeable as those of U.S., Switzerland etc.
Click to expand...

That's not reducing the amount of time you're required to hold the M2 class, that's just getting credit for the time you had your licence in another country.
 
El Cockblock said:
^^ This is me saying it, after reading this:

"Effective August 1, 2010, novice or hybrid drivers (drivers that hold a novice licence and full licence, e.g., G/M2) will be subject to Novice Driver Escalating Sanctions. These sanctions will apply if, within a five year period, you:

• are convicted of violating any of the graduated licensing conditions;
• are convicted of HTA offences that result in 4 or more demerit points; or,
• receive a court-ordered suspension for an HTA offence that would have resulted in 4 or more demerit points"

ERGO

"Effective August 1, 2010, both novice drivers of any age and all drivers 21 and under, regardless of licence class, must have a blood alcohol level of zero when operating a motor vehicle.

If you are a novice driver and are caught with any amount of alcohol in your blood, you will receive an immediate 24-hour roadside driver licence suspension. If convicted, will be subject to a fine from $60-$500 and will receive a suspension period as per the Novice Driver Escalating Sanction scheme, up to and including cancellation of the novice licence. You will also have to return to the start of GLS.

If you are a fully licensed driver who is 21 and under and you are caught with alcohol in your blood, you will receive a 24-hour roadside driver licence suspension. If convicted, you will be subject to a fine of $60-$500 and a 30-day licence suspension."


^^ This is where all G/M2 holders will get dinged if pulled over driving a car after having a drink.

If you still don't believe me, ask an officer, he can rectify this fo' sho'
Click to expand...

You are reading this wrong.


This reads as:

- novice drivers (G1/G2/M1/M2) of any age
- all drivers 21 and under, regardless of licence class

must have a blood alcohol level of zero when operating a motor vehicle.

The key line here is "are convicted of violating any of the graduated licensing conditions". Since there's no graduated licensing conditions on a G licence (such as having a zero BAC), you can not be sanctioned for it. Of course, if you're under 21 (with GM2), you're subject to the age-based restrictions on BAC. Since I'm 30 with a GM2, I only am a novice driver on my motorcycle and as such only subject to M2 restrictions while operating it.

The MTO material isn't always clear, but if you read the HTA you will find the actual definitions.
 
One more thing to add:

I am considering myself as a novice rider because I haven't ridden a bike for a very long time. My skills are almost non-existent now and I have to start basically from zero, but is going to be nice to save on insurance and take advance riding courses to regain some of those skills ;)
 
awyala said:
I dont think the OP has revealed too much. He may have an ace up his sleeve. As I said, there are teller-side exceptions, and maybe he is able to exploit one of them with something he is clearly not willing to reveal to us just yet. I am saying it IS possible though. You sister-in-law actally got a more favourable outcome than me...I still had to redo every stage test, I was only exempt from the time.

So that in and of itself suggests that slight circumstantial differences produce varied outcomes. The OP may have a circumstance that gets him some time exemption. It is not at all unbelievable.
Click to expand...

This is mostly based on whether we have reciprocal treaties with other countries for licensing. Take a look here: http://www.drivetest.ca/en/license/OutOfCountryDrivers.aspx . If you come from a country that we do have a treaty with, they will just exchange your licence.

You most likely came from a country we do not have a treaty with, and as such you can provide authenticated, written proof of your driving experience for (I believe) up to 36 months worth of credit.
 
Last edited:
giesen said:
That's not reducing the amount of time you're required to hold the M2 class, that's just getting credit for the time you had your licence in another country.
Click to expand...

The effect is the same. As in, I did not have to wait 2 years to get an M.
 
awyala said:
The effect is the same. As in, I did not have to wait 2 years to get an M.
Click to expand...

That's because you already "waited" (in another country). The effect is, that by the time you have your M, you will have at least the minimum required amount of driving experience. You can not hold a licence in another country for 3 months and then come to Ontario and receive an M licence, you still have to have equivalent experience to someone who started in the GLS in Ontario. The GLS is not about waiting, it's about accumulating driving experience. If you can prove you have valid driving experience in another country, that's all the MTO cares about.
 
Last edited:
giesen said:
This is mostly based on whether we have reciprocal treaties with other countries for licensing. Take a look here: http://www.drivetest.ca/en/license/OutOfCountryDrivers.aspx . If you come from a country that we do have a treaty with, they will just exchange your licence.

You most likely came from a country we do not have a treaty with, and as such you can provide authenticated, written proof of your driving experience for (I believe) up to 36 months worth of credit.
Click to expand...

Yep. The outward appearence however looks like you found a loop hole. To the average Ontarian, it looks like you had an unfair advantage. There in lies some of the hostility towards the OP. But really he was just being tongue and cheek about his licencing path. He didn't reveal much and got a bunch of forum posters riled up.

"Nah nah na boo boo" while walking to the front of the line? Maybe a little. But he came off as playful to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom