New Highway 413 Yea or Nay?

[ToSlow]

Substantially all GTA land has been locked up by developers for decades. They may not own it on paper but they are throwing a lot of money at farmers to secure future purchases. Watching how some of these expropriation negotiation go down would make you vomit (you are impeding use of my land by building a highway so you need to give me 1M an acre to account for the impairment on my entire site plus expropriate the agricultural land for 1M an acre because I was going to get it zoned residential. I don't care that I bought the farm for 5M, the provincial portion of my impairment is hundreds of millions.)

I had a neighbor that was his job to do the deal to expropriate land, He said that the first offering will always be the best. On the second and third round the money is running out and if you don't take it, they force you to let it go

 

[nobbie48]

The long term solution is to dump the "GTA is the centre of the universe" attitude and open up the rest of the province. With more land available at reasonable prices it would encourage industry and non governmental affordable housing. How about a highway from Barrie direct to Sarnia, putting all of SW Ontario and the Bruce closer to better routes.

 

[sburns]

We certainly need more north/south highways. I can't for the life of me understand why 427 doesn't run up to Wasaga Beach to take pressure off the 400, but lets face it, Toronto is growing so rapidly that another beltway is desperately needed. 413 could be extended east and south.

I don't get that either, it just ends in a industry park. Just proves that bad infrastructure planning isn't limited to Toronto, it's province wide. It's like they all are using the same bad playbook to build everything with no though of some kinda future proofing.

Even with the improvements on the 401 west from Milton to Kitchener, can't keep up. Same with end of Pickering to Oshawa.

So whatever plans they have hopefully they jump on it because it seems like total gridlock is next.

 

[GreyGhost]

The long term solution is to dump the "GTA is the centre of the universe" attitude and open up the rest of the province. With more land available at reasonable prices it would encourage industry and non governmental affordable housing. How about a highway from Barrie direct to Sarnia, putting all of SW Ontario and the Bruce closer to better routes.

That's an interesting chicken and egg problem and I'm not sure if it is a good idea or not. I think I could be convinced either way. With current development and traffic, it is obviously not justified but if you build it, they may come. That brings lots of "affordable" land into the development picture but also pushes a lot of farmland from being a viable farm to being much more valuable as development.

 

[GreyGhost]

We certainly need more north/south highways. I can't for the life of me understand why 427 doesn't run up to Wasaga Beach to take pressure off the 400, but lets face it, Toronto is growing so rapidly that another beltway is desperately needed. 413 could be extended east and south.

Conveniently, 427 ends is a lot of land associated with DeZen and just south of land associated with Milani. It looks like it has a viable path north up the hydro corridor. I'm not sure if wasaga is an appropriate terminus as it is a traffic nighmare. Maybe stayner and let them spread out from there or swing east to the 400 north of Barrie?

 

[Trials]

It's a terrible way to design a city infrastructure,
all these express toll roads end in a bottleneck or T-bone an already major clogged artery.

 

[GreyGhost]

It's a terrible way to design a city infrastructure,
all these express toll roads end in a bottleneck or T-bone an already major clogged artery.

413 has both ends on major highways (for a change). Sure they are busy, but they would be worse without 413.

 

[Green Meenie]

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone Milton & west would want to go that far north on their daily morning commute only to be dumped onto the gridlocked Hwy. 400 somewhere in Vaughn. Clearly I've missed something or I'm just not a visionary?

 

[Trials]

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone Milton & west would want to go that far north on their daily morning commute only to be dumped onto the gridlocked Hwy. 400 somewhere in Vaughn. Clearly I've missed something or I'm just not a visionary?
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You foresee being able to use more of those toll roads as much as I ever could, basically never. But look at all the bedroom communities they will be able to build around it.

 

[GreyGhost]

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone Milton & west would want to go that far north on their daily morning commute only to be dumped onto the gridlocked Hwy. 400 somewhere in Vaughn. Clearly I've missed something or I'm just not a visionary?
View attachment 47184

I would expect that it is more a bradford to brampton commute. Also major truck route from north to west. Should remove a decent number of trucks from 401/400 interchange. Assuming they dont toll it too heavily that is. A US style toll ($1 tops) wouldnt bother me, anything like the 407 screws the whole projects benefit imo.

 

[Trials]

These are perimeter roads
headed kinda north-east ish and they have multiple interchanges, it's not a throughway from or to anything :| It will not reduce congestion on the 401 corridor that needs needs a throughway bypass badly.
The rest of the world needs a road you get on with no intention of using local Toronto exits and facilities, you just want to get to the other side and out of town and it can't be a toll way or the long haul transport trucks can't use it. They really are a major root of the problem incase anybody did not notice.

 

[Brian P]

The 413 will be a toll road, and the tolls will be the same as those on the 407. Count on it.

I live in an area not far from where it would pass through, and although it would probably increase my property value, I'm not a fan of it. I don't think it accomplishes anything that the 407 doesn't already do, except encourage more urban sprawl.

 

[bigpoppa]

The 413 will be a toll road, and the tolls will be the same as those on the 407. Count on it.

I live in an area not far from where it would pass through, and although it would probably increase my property value, I'm not a fan of it. I don't think it accomplishes anything that the 407 doesn't already do, except encourage more urban sprawl.

But his friends in Vaughan will be pleased

 

[48Connor]

I'd rather the government take the $6 billion that they would spend on the 413 and buy back the 407 to make the cost of driving on it reasonable. It seems to be $50 every time I drive on it - its absurd.

 

[Hack]

None of this would be an issue if we had flying cars... 'like we were told we'd have by now.

 

[GreyGhost]

I'd rather the government take the $6 billion that they would spend on the 413 and buy back the 407 to make the cost of driving on it reasonable. It seems to be $50 every time I drive on it - its absurd.

You thing they would let it go for that little? Present value of a monopoly with no limit on fees charged and ~80 years left is a hell of a lot more than 6B.

 

[Trials]

None of this would be an issue if we had flying cars... 'like we were told we'd have by now.

It would be a lot less problem if we could travel on Lake Ontario, the entire golden horseshoe is wrapped around it and it's a heck of a good shortcut to and from a lot of places.

 

[sburns]

It would be a lot less problem if we could travel on Lake Ontario, the entire golden horseshoe is wrapped around it and it's a heck of a good shortcut to and from a lot of places.

You can, it's called a boat!
Didn't they try offering a service from Rochester to Toronto?

 

[48Connor]

You thing they would let it go for that little? Present value of a monopoly with no limit on fees charged and ~80 years left is a hell of a lot more than 6B.

True. There are estimates that it was worth $30 billion in 2019.

But lets be real - the $6 billion they say it will cost them to build the 413 will be $15 billion by the time it is done.

 

[Trials]

You can, it's called a boat!
Didn't they try offering a service from Rochester to Toronto?

Ya, but they forgot to consider nobody wanted to go there in the first place.