Nailed for driving on shoulder 401 Westney

[caboose56]

Explain that one to me. You're in the right lane in free flowing traffic, someone passes you in the left lane, how are they affecting your drive home? You either can't read, or understand.

And I've clearly said a few times now, I don't think there's anything special about me. I simply choose to break different laws than the laws that others break. Riding on the shoulder is a smaller ticket than doing 20kms over the limit, yet I can guarantee everyone on this forum breaks that law DAILY. So what you guys are saying is that it's okay for YOU to break laws that you're comfortable breaking, but it's not okay for others to break laws that you're uncomfortable with, even when those laws carry a smaller fine. Even if I didn't ride, I'd still support lane splitting and filtering. When I'm driving and come to a red light, if there's a car behind me that's turning right I will always move up into the cross walk (assuming there's no pedestrians) so the person behind me can be on their way. The dumb @$$ mentality of "I'm waiting so they have to wait" would never cross my mind. It is of absolutely no benefit to me that they wait behind me, and it costs me nothing to let them past.

I could explain it with crayons and construction paper but I still don't think you'd understand.

Keep up the good work, rockstar!


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[R6Yamii]

 

[twinswin]

A highway shoulder serves several functions:

1. It serves as a lateral support to the highway pavement.
2. It provides a means of protecting the highway surface from the intrusion of water, one of the great destroyers of our highways.
3. It serves as a safety feature by providing refuge room off the highway pavement surface for disabled vehicles and in emergencies for vehicles to avoid head on collisions by oncoming vehicles out of control.
4. It provides a partial storage area for snow which we must remove from the pavement to provide the traveling public with an acceptable pavement at all times.
5. A wide shoulder provides a temporary parking area for people who wish to stop and enjoy the scenic vistas so readily available throughout the state.
6. Shoulders provide an auxiliary pavement for vehicles where the pavement is narrow. Many of our pavements have lanes 10 or 11 feet wide and some of them even narrower.

I've been caught in stop and go traffic before, on the QEW Westbound at rush hour. It's definitely ride-able. Nothing to get your panties in a knot about. Next time try another route with less traffic and more breathing space. I came back along the Lakeshore, and it was a much more pleasant ride.

7. When paved, provides a safe avenue of escape for motorcyclists (or cars) needing to perform emergency maneuvers to avoid collisions with lane changers who do not shoulder check their blind spots.

 

[twinswin]

You have no special legal rights as a motorcycle rider. You are not special in any way....

And there in lies the problem with the HTA. It does not make special accommodations for motorcyclists in any way, (that I know of that is) and therefore puts riders in danger at times. It's one thing for a cager to sit in traffic in a sweltering day in his air conditioned vehicle listening to his favorite cd, and quite another for a motorcyclist to be straddling his bike, in proper riding gear, and overheating himself to the possible point of a heat stroke. In such cases, the law could easily be amended to allow for traffic filtering for the rider's sake.

This "holier than thou" attitude smells of spoilt brat syndrome.

Nothing holier than though when a motorcyclist "breaks the law" in order to better survive any number of perils not faced by cagers. Using the shoulder to get out of trouble is something I've often done out of survival instincts, like a tractor trailer truck riding on your license plate at 70 mph when you're boxed in and passing on the shoulder is you're only way out.

We're all motorcycle riders, and there is no exception for any of us (except for the bike cops on the forum, you know who you are).

Like I said earlier, that's the problem with the HTA: there needs to be special accommodations and considerations for riders in order to better protect them from idiot cagers who have no regard for motorcyclists safety, or from law makers who think standing up on the pegs when crossing a severely uneven RR crossing constitutes stunt riding.

If you want to see how out of tune with MC safety the MoT is, look at the programmable overhead signs posted on occasion that read , "Check your mirrors for motorcyclists", which actually puts us in greater danger as it should read, "Shoulder check for motorcyclist when changing lanes". Checking mirrors will not suffice and in fact lowers driver skills and raises dangers for riders like you and me, and clearly shows how law makers and enforcers don't have a clue about keeping riders safe. As such, I believe the HTA might be unconstitutional at times, and I wonder if any rider busted for riding on a shoulder for example, has ever challenged the laws under the constitution.

 

[conundrum]

Interesting. So as it stands everybody breaks the 20 over everyday but 99% don't drive on the shoulder even tho it's a smaller ticket. Wowsers. Why do you suppose that is? What do the 99% get or don't get that is so crystal clear to you?

If anything that proves how stupid laws are here in Ontario, and how the punishment doesn't fit the crime. I wonder if riding along the sidewalk is less of a crime than speeding..maybe we should all do that if the shoulder is occupied by someone else...

And if there's 10+ bikes?

Apparently M desgination on licenses means "me" ....

Well said...I feel lots of riders think that way.

 

[conundrum]

When I go to to the bank I just walk past everyone in line and go right up to the next available clerk.

I only have one simple transaction to make. Why should I have to wait in the same line as everyone else? They should be thankful that I'm not occupying space in their regular line.

True story.

Give society another 5-10 years, and we'll probably be there. Too many people today seem to think life is a movie and they are the star/main character.

Actually I've already seen this at fast food places -- People cut the line all the time because they 'only want a drink or a cookie'.

 

[caboose56]

How about if I just push my way to the front of a line at a grocery store.

I mean I only have a few items and it doesn't affect people in other lines so why would they care?? It only affects the people in one line and I only have a few items so what's the big deal?


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[DECIMIS]

On the need to know basis, is using someone elses' quote somewhat ironic in this instance?

HA! Yes, yes it is. You got me, thanks. I'm just practicing for when it really matters.

 

[油井緋色]

How about if I just push my way to the front of a line at a grocery store.

I mean I only have a few items and it doesn't affect people in other lines so why would they care?? It only affects the people in one line and I only have a few items so what's the big deal?


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Again, this is a really bad analogy but kinda applies to Canada if you follow the law. If you don't, and you're constantly weaving between cars and the shoulder during lanes during heavy traffic, you ultimately don't slow anyone down because you're getting out of the way...this is what happens in Asia and Europe. If the bikes were treated like cars, you'd only increase congestion and traffic times.

Problem with Canada is that there aren't enough bikes for people to realize this and we have antiquated laws like no helmet modification laws affect Bluetooth and camera attachments (I guarantee you the law was made for something else).

I'm not for or against lane splitting/shoulder riding btw. Bad analogy is just bad.

 

[xplorer]

How about if I just push my way to the front of a line at a grocery store.

I mean I only have a few items and it doesn't affect people in other lines so why would they care?? It only affects the people in one line and I only have a few items so what's the big deal?


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Sorry. I dont have a paper or crayon but want to say - It is special cash for less then $$$ items everywhere.
Because it is make sense. Ontario doesnt care about bikes at all. Most of HOV lines not available for MC.
MC is totally different vehicle with different requirements and abilities. If we add one small line in shoulders for MC does affect something? Does Go bus lane on DVP affect you much? It was shoulder before....
I know. It is law. But it is stupid law. And should be changes.

P.S. HTA not allow you stand on a pegs which is essential skill for riding MC.

 

[Baggsy]

And there in lies the problem with the HTA. It does not make special accommodations for motorcyclists in any way, (that I know of that is) and therefore puts riders in danger at times. It's one thing for a cager to sit in traffic in a sweltering day in his air conditioned vehicle listening to his favorite cd, and quite another for a motorcyclist to be straddling his bike, in proper riding gear, and overheating himself to the possible point of a heat stroke. In such cases, the law could easily be amended to allow for traffic filtering for the rider's sake.



Nothing holier than though when a motorcyclist "breaks the law" in order to better survive any number of perils not faced by cagers. Using the shoulder to get out of trouble is something I've often done out of survival instincts, like a tractor trailer truck riding on your license plate at 70 mph when you're boxed in and passing on the shoulder is you're only way out.



Like I said earlier, that's the problem with the HTA: there needs to be special accommodations and considerations for riders in order to better protect them from idiot cagers who have no regard for motorcyclists safety, or from law makers who think standing up on the pegs when crossing a severely uneven RR crossing constitutes stunt riding.

If you want to see how out of tune with MC safety the MoT is, look at the programmable overhead signs posted on occasion that read , "Check your mirrors for motorcyclists", which actually puts us in greater danger as it should read, "Shoulder check for motorcyclist when changing lanes". Checking mirrors will not suffice and in fact lowers driver skills and raises dangers for riders like you and me, and clearly shows how law makers and enforcers don't have a clue about keeping riders safe. As such, I believe the HTA might be unconstitutional at times, and I wonder if any rider busted for riding on a shoulder for example, has ever challenged the laws under the constitution.

The easiest solution would be to stop riding, if you find motorcycles so dangerous to ride in traffic.
If you're having that many problems, then you need to look at yourself and what you're doing or not doing, rather than looking at others.

 

[caboose56]

Again, this is a really bad analogy but kinda applies to Canada if you follow the law. If you don't, and you're constantly weaving between cars and the shoulder during lanes during heavy traffic, you ultimately don't slow anyone down because you're getting out of the way...this is what happens in Asia and Europe. If the bikes were treated like cars, you'd only increase congestion and traffic times.

Problem with Canada is that there aren't enough bikes for people to realize this and we have antiquated laws like no helmet modification laws affect Bluetooth and camera attachments (I guarantee you the law was made for something else).

I'm not for or against lane splitting/shoulder riding btw. Bad analogy is just bad.

Sorry. I dont have a paper or crayon but want to say - It is special cash for less then $$$ items everywhere.
Because it is make sense. Ontario doesnt care about bikes at all. Most of HOV lines not available for MC.
MC is totally different vehicle with different requirements and abilities. If we add one small line in shoulders for MC does affect something? Does Go bus lane on DVP affect you much? It was shoulder before....
I know. It is law. But it is stupid law. And should be changes.

P.S. HTA not allow you stand on a pegs which is essential skill for riding MC.

This isn't Europe or Asia. We don't have millions of motorcycle riders, we have a statistically insignificant amount of riders here and any law that affects riders either positively or negatively has a net zero effect on traffic.

So if I drive my truck down the shoulder in just getting out of everyone's way too? So that's ok?

I'm not talking about using the express lane for ten items or less at the grocery store. I'm talking about walking past everyone to the front of a line. No one would do it because it's a dick move.

Lanes on a congested highway are quite similar to lanes at the grocery store. Some are faster, some are slower. Take your chances but you use the lanes.

All this "getting out of the way" stuff is complete ********. This is about selfishness and nothing more.


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[Jayv]

Problem with Canada is that there aren't enough bikes for people to realize this and we have antiquated laws like no helmet modification laws affect Bluetooth and camera attachments (I guarantee you the law was made for something else).

I've seen a dozen bikes on the roads this week, most of them cruisers. Where the hell did everyone go lol, it's not even cold.

Not interested in lane splitting in this province until they start retesting 90% of the road users that shouldn't have got their licences in the first place.

 

[Baggsy]

I've seen a dozen bikes on the roads this week, most of them cruisers. Where the hell did everyone go lol, it's not even cold.

Not interested in lane splitting in this province until they start retesting 90% of the road users that shouldn't have got their licences in the first place.

Especially, the test to be able to ride a fully loaded motorcycle, on a highway, with a passenger, at night. :d

 

[油井緋色]

This isn't Europe or Asia. We don't have millions of motorcycle riders, we have a statistically insignificant amount of riders here and any law that affects riders either positively or negatively has a net zero effect on traffic.

So if I drive my truck down the shoulder in just getting out of everyone's way too? So that's ok?

I'm not talking about using the express lane for ten items or less at the grocery store. I'm talking about walking past everyone to the front of a line. No one would do it because it's a dick move.

Lanes on a congested highway are quite similar to lanes at the grocery store. Some are faster, some are slower. Take your chances but you use the lanes.

All this "getting out of the way" stuff is complete ********. This is about selfishness and nothing more.


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Total congestion would not increase if the rider is weaving in and out of traffic (I do not mean at 100km/h+ the traffic speed lol). Banks and grocery story is a really bad analogy because there is a bottleneck in the number of operating cashiers. In the case of using a shoulder or lane splitting, you are effectively adding throughput.

Regardless if North America/Canada isn't Europe or Asia, the amount of motorcycles doesn't change the fact that using space only motorcycles can fit in adds throughput. You could argue the same about smaller cars that fit on the shoulder as well...frankly it doesn't bug me if someone uses it. The problem is when an emergency vehicle needs it.

I've seen a dozen bikes on the roads this week, most of them cruisers. Where the hell did everyone go lol, it's not even cold.

Not interested in lane splitting in this province until they start retesting 90% of the road users that shouldn't have got their licences in the first place.

This year has been weird...I haven't been out as much either lol

 

[Flywheel]

I really doubt that.

My friend doubted it too, but the ticket in his hand proved otherwise. After that, he sort of started being slightly skeptical of "To Serve & Protect".

 

[caboose56]

My friend doubted it too, but the ticket in his hand proved otherwise. After that, he sort of started being slightly skeptical of "To Serve & Protect".

What was the actual charge?


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[inreb]

Lane splitting and shoulder riding are mostly separate issues, are they not?

 

[caboose56]

Total congestion would not increase if the rider is weaving in and out of traffic (I do not mean at 100km/h+ the traffic speed lol). Banks and grocery story is a really bad analogy because there is a bottleneck in the number of operating cashiers. In the case of using a shoulder or lane splitting, you are effectively adding throughput.

Regardless if North America/Canada isn't Europe or Asia, the amount of motorcycles doesn't change the fact that using space only motorcycles can fit in adds throughput. You could argue the same about smaller cars that fit on the shoulder as well...frankly it doesn't bug me if someone uses it. The problem is when an emergency vehicle needs it.



This year has been weird...I haven't been out as much either lol

Cashiers and tellers = stop lights.

Lots of cars and trucks can fit on the shoulder. Do you suggest it's ok for car traffic to use the shoulder if it's wide enough?

Rider was behind, rider passes on the shoulder, now rider is ahead. At the next light a car that would have got through on a green light does not because the rider advanced up the cue. Before you say "there's no stop lights on the highway" I'll remind you that there usually are at the end of an off ramp.

Remind me again how it doesn't affect other drivers?

I stand by what I wrote. Changing a law like this would result in a statistically insignificant change. Zero improvement means zero justification to make a change and zero chance of succeeding in such a change.

Give up the charade and just admit you're advocating this for selfish reasons.


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[Baggsy]

Total congestion would not increase if the rider is weaving in and out of traffic (I do not mean at 100km/h+ the traffic speed lol). Banks and grocery story is a really bad analogy because there is a bottleneck in the number of operating cashiers. In the case of using a shoulder or lane splitting, you are effectively adding throughput.

Regardless if North America/Canada isn't Europe or Asia, the amount of motorcycles doesn't change the fact that using space only motorcycles can fit in adds throughput. You could argue the same about smaller cars that fit on the shoulder as well...frankly it doesn't bug me if someone uses it. The problem is when an emergency vehicle needs it.



This year has been weird...I haven't been out as much either lol

Where do people get these fanciful notions from?

Every person you cut off has to brake to let you in. The person behind them has to brake harder because they don't know if it's an emergency stop or just a slight slowing, and so on and so on, until further down the road, someone has to come to a complete stop.
Then when you're weaving, you're stopping each and every lane further back.

The idea is to be predictable. The surrounding traffic should be able to tell where you'll be in 2 seconds, 4 seconds and reliably predict where you'll be in 10 seconds.

As for space, I've seen space between two lanes that my van would fit through. Have I used it to increase throughput? No.