Motorcycle crash captured on dashcam

[TiburonJA]

Panic stops were part of the M1 Exit course at Learning Curves. I crashed a Ninja 250 in the rain. Good times.

I almost crashed in the rain, never did any course or anything and it was my 2nd time in heavy (like HEAVY) rain. Was coming up to a red and I guess going a little faster than I would have liked, hit the brakes and noticed my back tire start to fishtail... like I glanced back and legit could see it in my peripheral way to the side. Anyways, I'm not one to really panic since I usually rehearse these things in my head. Simply let go of the brake and my bike luckily corrected in time and I could stop in time. I feel like the second you panic and don't think clearly you're usually toast regardless of the situation, just gotta keep your cool and most of the time you'll be fine if you're not doing anything too stupid.

 

[Ontariomystic]

Also in the wrong tire track, was probably looking ahead between the guard rail and the vehicle in front.

 

[boyoboy]

I'm surprised by how many people are focusing on this rider's reaction and not on what got him into the situation. The cause of this accident: the rider failed to get the big picture. He failed to identify hazards and identify countermeasures resulting in him following too closely. There was a 10' hole in the shoulder he could have used, but didn't anticipate using it. He also didn't anticipate the driver in front locking up - something you should always do in any vehicle.

It's great to have all those track skills when you're in an accident. It's a lot better to have the skills to avoid an accident in the first place.

I wholeheartedly disagree. This rider was totally lacking in braking skill. The front brake provides 80% or more of a motorcycles braking force. I do agree he should have been more aware, and could have easily used the shoulder for escape, but he had the rear tire locked and could not steer. Another rider posted that a motorcyle riding course teaches to keep the rear tire locked if it locks - ridiculous, immediately release the rear when it locks so the front and rear are still close in alignment to avoid the flick/highside. This allows you to maintain control / steering. Perhaps he took the same rider instruction course lol. The guy simply lacked both awareness and braking skill.

edit: and no, he was not following too closely

 

[boyoboy]

That's the part I struggle with. I think any well experienced rider can easily recover from a brief rear wheel skid, so automatically riding any rear wheel skid to a stop from any speed seems like it shouldn't necessarily always be the de facto decision.

I'll admit I've locked up the rear on my VTX1300 - got cut off riding around Christmas last year (typical rolling stop right turn cager, didn't even slow down and comprehend I was there), grabbed a handful of front and a footfull of rear and she locked...however, inside a split second I knew it was locked and released immediately. I got barely any snap at all, got the rear wheel rolling again, and then got back into the brake again.

Had the skid progressed longer than a split second I guess it makes sense to avoid release and risking a possible highside, although you risk doing what this guy did...but I also suspect a more experienced rider could easily have rode that to a stop.

I guess ultimately rider skill and the length of the skid factors greatly into the end decision.

Here's a video that shows that one can skid, release, skid again, and release again...and survive.

[video=youtube;rCdllTyo9C4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCdllTyo9C4[/video]

+1

+1
at least he had the sense to get off the rear brake immediately to maintain control. If the rider in the first video had done this.. he would have been able to use the shoulder for escape.

EDIT how to use your brakes www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ED8BfPtaTw

 

[nearace]

Dude wasn't looking nearly far enough ahead nor at traffic in the other lanes to understand things were slowing down quickly. He hadn't thought about escape routes etc. He realized too late he was going waayy too fast coming up on slow-moving cars and panicked.

Hopefully he wasn't hurt badly. Looked like a nasty initial hit with the asphalt.

Right call brother.

 

[boyoboy]

Dude wasn't looking nearly far enough ahead nor at traffic in the other lanes to understand things were slowing down quickly. He hadn't thought about escape routes etc. He realized too late he was going waayy too fast coming up on slow-moving cars and panicked.

Hopefully he wasn't hurt badly. Looked like a nasty initial hit with the asphalt.

yes+1, the car in front had his brake lights on for a long time. his lack of braking skill finished him. the camera car didn't start braking any earlier than the bike, and was able to slow in time.

edit near the end the bike bounces right on his head, brutal.

 

[Roadghost]

I wholeheartedly disagree. This rider was totally lacking in braking skill. The front brake provides 80% or more of a motorcycles braking force. I do agree he should have been more aware, and could have easily used the shoulder for escape, but he had the rear tire locked and could not steer. Another rider posted that a motorcyle riding course teaches to keep the rear tire locked if it locks - ridiculous, immediately release the rear when it locks so the front and rear are still close in alignment to avoid the flick/highside. This allows you to maintain control / steering. Perhaps he took the same rider instruction course lol. The guy simply lacked both awareness and braking skill.

edit: and no, he was not following too closely

You won't need those skills if you watch what you're doing. He was following too closely for his skill level.

 

[boyoboy]

You won't need those skills if you watch what you're doing. He was following too closely for his skill level.

yeh+1, he should have been in the right lane puttin

 

[BigEvilDoer]

Typical cruiser rider that's terrified of their front brakes because they will guaranteed make them crash... sigh...
Sad but true stereotype that cruiser riders have no clue that the front brakes are really where it's at.

 

[LWTRacer]

This is why ABS is a good idea on all bike regardless of experience.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

ABS wouldnt have saved this guy from crashing at all....He wasn't pay attention to the cars ahead and grabbed a handful/bootful of brakes. Had he had ABS he still would have tried to steer, and he would have crashed anyways.

ABS is a wonderful thing, but the Human Brain that is panicked has a habbit of STILL screwing up under distress.

 

[fastar1]

When you are in a panic situation there is so much going on to worry about your rear wheel locked is the last thing to be concentrating on which is why if it locks just forget about it keep it locked and put your attention on squeezing the front brake and stopping. If you focus on the rear locked instead of the important things like actually stopping you are not focused on the task at hand of just avoiding the crash. In the video it is pretty clear all the rider did was lock the rear and never used any front brake or very little at all. This is why riders this time of year especially new ones need to go to a parking lot and practise emergency stops. It needs to become second nature. How many of you have not done one since their basic rider course???

Agree with PrivatePilot on this one. If there's so much going on to worry about the rear, then nobody should ever be trained to keep the rear brake on if the tire slides! Especially since releasing it is the best option anyways. I know keeping the brake on is MSF gospel, but it's wrong, and I'll tell you why.

First of all, proper training would tell newbies to ignore the rear brake entirely, until they feel confident enough to try it with experience. Or maybe in an advanced course. The rear brake provides at best (on a low rider on slick roads) maybe 50% of total braking force. In most other cases it's 0-20%. Focusing on the front brake alone makes it easier to modulate, and it would save many unnecessary crashes including the guy in the video.

If for some reason the rider applies the rear brake and it starts to slide, the instinct to release the brake is the correct instinct. Holding it on can only result in the rear coming around the front if you actually need to come to a quick stop, because the front brake, even at low force, will be slowing down much faster than the rear when it's sliding. So the bike HAS TO come around on itself. The only way to avoid it coming around is to release the front brake completely and hold onto the rear, so the bike aligns itself. Which makes for long, pretty, skid marks and dead riders.

On the other hand if the rider releases the rear brake when it starts to slide, it will either recover or grip suddenly and toss him in the air if it's sideways enough. But the rider won't be any worse off than if he held the brake on. He at least has a chance to recover.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Typical cruiser rider that's terrified of their front brakes because they will guaranteed make them crash... sigh...
Sad but true stereotype that cruiser riders have no clue that the front brakes are really where it's at.

Stereotype much?

This was an experience issue, not a choice of bike issue. Chances are he'd have done the exact same thing has he been riding a sport bike. Where's your argument then?

C'mon...really?

 

[Baggsy]

The problem with this thread now, is that there is much bad advice/opinion mixed in with some good advice.

If you're starting out you shouldn't be expected to filter through that mess, and I don't think that I want to contribute my own opinion to the heap, except for the above disclaimer.

 

[PrivatePilot]

I know keeping the brake on is MSF gospel, but it's wrong, and I'll tell you why.

First of all, proper training would tell newbies to ignore the rear brake entirely

To the contrary, students are told to not use the FRONT brake (at all, don't even touch the lever!) until quite a way into the course. During the course, as an already experienced rider, I considered the logic for that as I was riding and the best I could figure out was that it accomplished two things:

1/ Avoided accidental front wheel lockups/crashes during the very early formative stages of even learning how to use brakes.
2/ Let students get a good feel for the effectiveness/power of the rear brake so as to hopefully avoid lockups and skids/wrecks during the emergency braking maneuvers later on.

One of my nitpicks of the Centennial course was that they were not clear at which point we were to start using the front brake. One lesson we were getting told to get our hands off of it (I was instinctively using from the very beginning and got scolded on more than a few occasions to get my hands off the lever), and then all of a sudden at some point I got scolded for NOT using it when the fact we were supposed to be now using it was unclear.

But yes, I do struggle with the "if you skid hold the brake and the skid until you stop" mantra. Although I do see the highside risk during a release, I think meeting in the middle somewhere would have been a much better idea - low speed skid release immediately, high speed skid, consider holding it. Ultimately some practice dealing specifically with intentional skids would be idea, but of course they'd be going through a rear tire every few classes so that's not really practical I guess. That, and some students were still struggling even towards the end of the course so it's hard to say how effective that would have been. I'm guessing this is the sort of thing that they'd be teaching at advanced rider courses?

 

[Matt Rain]

Learning Curves did not have us avoid the front brake at all. If anything we were told that the rear brake was more useful for low-speed maneuvers than it was for braking.

There does seem to be a sub-group of riders who are irrationally afraid of the front brake. Baffles me.

 

[Roadghost]

The problem with this thread now, is that there is much bad advice/opinion mixed in with some good advice.

If you're starting out you shouldn't be expected to filter through that mess, and I don't think that I want to contribute my own opinion to the heap, except for the above disclaimer.

If he had been lane splitting this wouldn't have happened.

 

[Dresden]

Thank the lord he had a full face helmet on. That face plant looked like it hurt!

 

[PrivatePilot]

Learning Curves did not have us avoid the front brake at all. If anything we were told that the rear brake was more useful for low-speed maneuvers than it was for braking.

There does seem to be a sub-group of riders who are irrationally afraid of the front brake. Baffles me.

Those scared of the front brake may be those with some previous, albeit not formal experience who have at some point in their past had a bad experience with the front brake. Either that, or those who may have spent some time on YouTube watching motorcycle videos and seeing all the dumbass crashes caused by front wheel lockup or overuse.

It seems that learning curves does beat to a bit of a different drum however based on what I've ready here on and off. Their method does seem to make more sense, although I question them suggesting it's not that useful for "normal" braking. When I'm riding 2 and well north of 1000# gross, up I need all the braking I can get and I use both front and rear balanced. Teaching people to not use the rear brakes much (ie, only good at slow speed) does an equal disservice as making them scared of the front, IMHO.

If he had been lane splitting this wouldn't have happened.

And if only he had been using synthetic oil.

 

[nobbie48]

His head would have been a mess if he was lidless. The face plant and then his own bike gives him a few whacks.

He was fortunate that he wasn't in worse shape as his jeans were torn. His gear was the minimum with the exception of the face saving lid.

From what I was taught he was in the wrong blocking position however the left track gave him a better shot at the paved shoulder, an option he didn't take.

My Nazi-ish mentality says that failure to maintain discipline make one sloppier on all counts. A progressive degeneration of skills.

Less than proper gear
Inattentive
Poor braking skills
Poor crash avoidance skills


As in most crashes there are many factors.

 

[PrivatePilot]

At least he wasn't squidding, give him credit for that - sneakers not a good choice (but they stayed on), jeans not perfect (I may consider my chaps more often, I'll admit I'm guilty as charged for riding in just jeans most of the time), and yeah, wrong blocking position..but had he been in the right one his escape route would have been between the stopped cars...which would have worked ultimately.

And yeah, good choice on the full face, the bike appears to have landed right square on his head during the last flip.

At least he walked away and seemed mostly unscathed. Could have been way worse.

I'd like to know the back story behind the riders experience and training. I read some of the YT comments to see if I could gather anything useful in that respect, but that was (as it almost always seems to be) a mistake - the usual "UR GAY" and pissing matches.