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MotoGP 2018
- Thread starter johnscruiser
- Start date
iNfRaSoNiC
Member
The Canet fiasco? I missed that one, can you provide a video?
Thanks.
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iNfRaSoNiC
Member
Vinales is not doing better at Yamaha, so if it's anyone who should be giving his seat to Zarco it should be Vinales. Rossi is a legend in Moto GP and has earned that seat, almost 40 and still finishing on the podium consistently. Vinales still hasn't proved himself why he should have a factory ride in Moto GP, and the only reason he has that seat is because Rossi was OK with him being the second Yamaha rider. I can guarantee you 99.9% chance Vinales will never be a MotoGP champion, with the current talent there; he might win a race here and there, but no chance for him to beat everyone else consistently. Same thing with Dani Pedrosa, his seat should go to a better rider that can be competitive consistently.
As for riders moving out of the race line for faster riders, that shows that you've never actually been on a race track and have no idea what you're talking about...
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MM will always be a dickweed at heart, no matter how much he covers it up with a polite facade at times. I think people reveal their true selves at that age, with so much pressure and the feeling they have nothing to lose. Then as we age we get wiser, and we have a lot to lose by being so raw so we filter our true characters to make ourselves more socially acceptable. One day when Rossi and Marquez are fat and bald, giving friendly interviews together about the old days, MM will still be a total jerk at heart no matter how chummy he appears.
I felt the same way about Schumacher except Schumi was worse because he deliberately took out other drivers. I don't believe VR is correct (he maybe didn't even mean it) when he said MM does it on purpose. IMO if racers crash others on purpose they should be suspended for life and face criminal charges. There can be no tolerance for that. We've seen it in the lower rungs of MotoGP, and each time the driver gets a tut-tut. Pretty shameful TBH.
The thing Rossi said that was correct is that MM has no respect for other riders. Unfortunately that's true for some of the best racers, it gives them a performance advantage at the top levels. There's just a point where it goes too far, and MM is over the line.
IMO no racer should be handed a penalty for their aggressiveness without receiving a warning first. If I had a voice at the table I would have suggested a suspended disqualification, and if he barges into anyone again the suspension is lifted and he's out of the race, instantly. Plus additional race suspensions depending on the severity of the incident.
J_F
Guest
yes, racers on the same lap have zero obligation to allow faster racers by
if they did, what would be the point of the penalties?
would we even call it a race, if the faster riders were given a free pass to the front?
the Rossi one was bad....but I think the one earlier on the Aprilia rider was worse
just the outcome wasn't as bad as no one went down
Winales_2017
Well-known member
Time attack, but I've been on track with cars with 300+hp over than what I had in some heats and unless you wanted to put yourself in danger for limited benefit its best to just get out of the racing line if you KNOW you have no chance to put in a good time with someone with that much power/speed behind you. Losing time on a lap is better than getting rear ended by some late braking GT3 or ZR1 Vette. Also, I didn't have a trailer and couldn't afford to crash and had to drive my car home so I HAD to be more pragmatic.
Both Lin and Rossi admitted to being way off the pace, so why not just let him go and retain your points if you are so 'scared' of being on track with someone and knew he was coming after you? Has experience not taught you that discretion is the better part of valor after so many years on track?
I agree that when Marc struck Alexis he had no excuse, he just rammed into him and barely acknowledged his mistake int he process and deserved that penalty; but if you see that additional footage with Rossi you can see Marc having to roll off the brake as he locked the front and had to roll out of it and lift himself and the bike to avoid crashing, which probably comes naturally to him by now, thus pushing Rossi onto the grass.
Was it reckless, and worthy of 'ruining the sport?' Hardly. It looked like a racing incident from someone knowing he has to do damage limitation for a championship due to committing several mistakes in a race as his closest rival was doing poorly that weekend. It was certainly foolish in hindsight, because upon reflection he would overtake Dovi in the end and could have finished 5th, but that's not what he was thinking about at the time, he's used to fighting for wins and championships.
I just cannot understand how this 'legend,' who for all his previous race aggression and subsequent polemics, which defined his 'legacy,' can stand to make such criticisms and still be taken seriously as a title contender and be given a works factory ride and not be called out on that all while still being regarded by most as the 'GOAT.'
This isn't so much an anti-Rossi thing, as much as it is a pro-young rider thing, Rossi is just the one with the biggest spotlight on him as he was the star and posterchild of the previous era. Last year, according to Rossi it was Zarco who was persona non-grata and was too much, but later admitted after he renwed his contract that that is the 'style' he would have to compete in if he were to stay on the grid. Where is the person who said that now when he's calling for protection from Race Control and FIM?
Marc, Zarco, and Petrucci were all putting out there and taking risks for title/ride contention, and it didn't exactly go to plan due to tricky weather conditions; none of them were able to just coast it home knowing you can have yet another unsuccessful year and still have a secured ride. They're hungry and willing to put on a show in the process.
I thought it was a thrilling race despite all the absurdity, and an exhibition of what talent Marc has being able to cut through the field that way and getting to the top 5 after the drive through; has anyone actually count how many overtakes there were that race?
Had he waited to pass Rossi and avoided the incident altogether I bet the story would be entirely different, but because Rossi has the power of the media to make sure he let the World know that his (P6) position was compromised no one is willing to see anything else. Including Cal's conference.
No mirrors on race bikes. In motorcycle racing, even track days you don't ride off line to let a faster rider pass it's more dangerous than holding your line. Even a 3 second a lap slower rider can decide not to brake and dive up the inside and force himself and the rider he's trying to pass to go straight into the grass. So maybe everyone should ride that way and who ever picks up their bike the fastest wins.
Time attack, but I've been on track with cars with 300+hp over than what I had in some heats and unless you wanted to put yourself in danger for limited benefit its best to just get out of the racing line if you KNOW you have no chance to put in a good time with someone with that much power/speed behind you. Losing time on a lap is better than getting rear ended by some late braking GT3 or ZR1 Vette. Also, I didn't have a trailer and couldn't afford to crash and had to drive my car home so I HAD to be more pragmatic.
Both Lin and Rossi admitted to being way off the pace, so why not just let him go and retain your points if you are so 'scared' of being on track with someone and knew he was coming after you? Has experience not taught you that discretion is the better part of valor after so many years on track?
I agree that when Marc struck Alexis he had no excuse, he just rammed into him and barely acknowledged his mistake int he process and deserved that penalty; but if you see that additional footage with Rossi you can see Marc having to roll off the brake as he locked the front and had to roll out of it and lift himself and the bike to avoid crashing, which probably comes naturally to him by now, thus pushing Rossi onto the grass.
Was it reckless, and worthy of 'ruining the sport?' Hardly. It looked like a racing incident from someone knowing he has to do damage limitation for a championship due to committing several mistakes in a race as his closest rival was doing poorly that weekend. It was certainly foolish in hindsight, because upon reflection he would overtake Dovi in the end and could have finished 5th, but that's not what he was thinking about at the time, he's used to fighting for wins and championships.
I just cannot understand how this 'legend,' who for all his previous race aggression and subsequent polemics, which defined his 'legacy,' can stand to make such criticisms and still be taken seriously as a title contender and be given a works factory ride and not be called out on that all while still being regarded by most as the 'GOAT.'
This isn't so much an anti-Rossi thing, as much as it is a pro-young rider thing, Rossi is just the one with the biggest spotlight on him as he was the star and posterchild of the previous era. Last year, according to Rossi it was Zarco who was persona non-grata and was too much, but later admitted after he renwed his contract that that is the 'style' he would have to compete in if he were to stay on the grid. Where is the person who said that now when he's calling for protection from Race Control and FIM?
Marc, Zarco, and Petrucci were all putting out there and taking risks for title/ride contention, and it didn't exactly go to plan due to tricky weather conditions; none of them were able to just coast it home knowing you can have yet another unsuccessful year and still have a secured ride. They're hungry and willing to put on a show in the process.
I thought it was a thrilling race despite all the absurdity, and an exhibition of what talent Marc has being able to cut through the field that way and getting to the top 5 after the drive through; has anyone actually count how many overtakes there were that race?
Had he waited to pass Rossi and avoided the incident altogether I bet the story would be entirely different, but because Rossi has the power of the media to make sure he let the World know that his (P6) position was compromised no one is willing to see anything else. Including Cal's conference.
On some of your points I agree completely.
The race was incredibly entertaining, it was mayhem and chaos, so many moments to ask myself "WTF is going on?!".
I also agree that if MM had not made a few stupid decisions the story would be all about MM, and how he rode to a Top5 finish after his ride through penalty. But he did make stupid decisions... and now the story is about his stupid decisions... Sadly for Cal, no one is talking about him winning Honda's 750th GP. Had MM not stalled his bike at the start he likely would have won by half a lap. Even after he had stalled, if he had followed race direction and started from pit lane he probably still would have won.
I honestly find it mind boggling that MM is capable of such greatness, but can't wait 1-2 corners to safely pass someone who he's lapping significantly faster than. Even if he had stood up VR and there was no contact, no crash, the time he lost with such a ridiculous block pass would have been greater than had he just followed VR onto the front straight and passed him safely like a sane person into T1.
I don't know what to make of it, I have a really hard time wrapping my head around MM's racecraft (or lack thereof) I wonder if over the past season he's been so fast that he hasn't had to push? When you look at his last lap battles with Dovi you can see who's being played. Dovi knows that MM is going to make a ridiculous last lap, last corner, pass attempt so he lets him do it and gets him on the cut back. When you look at how MM rides when things aren't going his way, which isn't very often, it really looks like his mental game and racecraft is poorly developed.
There's really two reasons why I don't like MM
1) He makes stupid decisions that have and will ruin the race of other riders.
2) He really has no weakness. Wet, dry, mixed, etc.. there's no track or no conditions that make him not a podium favourite. Only when weird stuff happens does he show his mental weakness and it's very rare.
Time attack, but I've been on track with cars with 300+hp over than what I had in some heats and unless you wanted to put yourself in danger for limited benefit its best to just get out of the racing line if you KNOW you have no chance to put in a good time with someone with that much power/speed behind you. Losing time on a lap is better than getting rear ended by some late braking GT3 or ZR1 Vette. Also, I didn't have a trailer and couldn't afford to crash and had to drive my car home so I HAD to be more pragmatic.
Both Lin and Rossi admitted to being way off the pace, so why not just let him go and retain your points if you are so 'scared' of being on track with someone and knew he was coming after you? Has experience not taught you that discretion is the better part of valor after so many years on track?
I agree that when Marc struck Alexis he had no excuse, he just rammed into him and barely acknowledged his mistake int he process and deserved that penalty; but if you see that additional footage with Rossi you can see Marc having to roll off the brake as he locked the front and had to roll out of it and lift himself and the bike to avoid crashing, which probably comes naturally to him by now, thus pushing Rossi onto the grass.
Was it reckless, and worthy of 'ruining the sport?' Hardly. It looked like a racing incident from someone knowing he has to do damage limitation for a championship due to committing several mistakes in a race as his closest rival was doing poorly that weekend. It was certainly foolish in hindsight, because upon reflection he would overtake Dovi in the end and could have finished 5th, but that's not what he was thinking about at the time, he's used to fighting for wins and championships.
I just cannot understand how this 'legend,' who for all his previous race aggression and subsequent polemics, which defined his 'legacy,' can stand to make such criticisms and still be taken seriously as a title contender and be given a works factory ride and not be called out on that all while still being regarded by most as the 'GOAT.'
This isn't so much an anti-Rossi thing, as much as it is a pro-young rider thing, Rossi is just the one with the biggest spotlight on him as he was the star and posterchild of the previous era. Last year, according to Rossi it was Zarco who was persona non-grata and was too much, but later admitted after he renwed his contract that that is the 'style' he would have to compete in if he were to stay on the grid. Where is the person who said that now when he's calling for protection from Race Control and FIM?
Marc, Zarco, and Petrucci were all putting out there and taking risks for title/ride contention, and it didn't exactly go to plan due to tricky weather conditions; none of them were able to just coast it home knowing you can have yet another unsuccessful year and still have a secured ride. They're hungry and willing to put on a show in the process.
I thought it was a thrilling race despite all the absurdity, and an exhibition of what talent Marc has being able to cut through the field that way and getting to the top 5 after the drive through; has anyone actually count how many overtakes there were that race?
Had he waited to pass Rossi and avoided the incident altogether I bet the story would be entirely different, but because Rossi has the power of the media to make sure he let the World know that his (P6) position was compromised no one is willing to see anything else. Including Cal's conference.
Cars are not bikes. I don’t expect anyone to move out of my way and I also won’t go off the racing line to just let someone by. Slow down slightly to allow them to pass, maybe. Do I expect to be hit by the passing rider? **** no! If you hit me you’ve made a bad error in judgement and if you’re one of the best riders in the WORLD you can time a pass when you’re going 2s a lap faster and easily get by. These aren’t cars where a little bump/nudge is to be expected and they sure as hell aren’t 300hp vs 600hp.
Go out on track riding a bike and you’ll gain a little more perspective of what it’s like to literally race elbow to elbow with other riders. There’s no bumpers or roll cages. You want to get tangled up with another rider because someone misjudged a pass? I can tell you personally that you don’t want that.
Scoffing at Rossi having a factory ride? Gimme a break.
Robbo
Well-known member
I don’t think Jack Miller was given the advantage he deserved. He should have been allowed a gap equivalent to the time it would take to do the first lap on rain tires plus time in and out of the pits to swap bikes under race conditions.
If they couldn’t figure that out, then I would like to have seen them start on rains.
Since they didn’t, I was expecting that the starting position would have been based on who left the grid first (first in, first back out).
And I’m with the group who believe there should be harsher penalties for the sh@t that MM gets/got away with. Multiple infractions and unsafe maneuvers...should have been black flagged.
Great to see a different podium from most races. Makes for a more entertaining season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If they couldn’t figure that out, then I would like to have seen them start on rains.
Since they didn’t, I was expecting that the starting position would have been based on who left the grid first (first in, first back out).
And I’m with the group who believe there should be harsher penalties for the sh@t that MM gets/got away with. Multiple infractions and unsafe maneuvers...should have been black flagged.
Great to see a different podium from most races. Makes for a more entertaining season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
J_F
Guest
I know tire conservation is part of racers' skill set
but it seems to be too much of the story these days
or has it always been that way?
don't recall back in the 500 days talking so much about tires
leader group in the last race were all completely done
Vins I thought ran a terrific race
but that rear was gone a few laps before the rest
he did well to stay on the podium
someone needs to come up with tires that won't overshadow the rider's skill
but it seems to be too much of the story these days
or has it always been that way?
don't recall back in the 500 days talking so much about tires
leader group in the last race were all completely done
Vins I thought ran a terrific race
but that rear was gone a few laps before the rest
he did well to stay on the podium
someone needs to come up with tires that won't overshadow the rider's skill
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