More Bull**** from Ontario insurance companies for young riders

[jeffjones]

Very true... But when you equate the average 20something year olds wage $10-$15/hour vs how much the insurance is... That's almost 1/5 of their yearly income... Not including the bike/car & not to mention the rising gas prices... I'm a lot more fortunate as I have an amazing job, but it still hurts like a son of a *****... Things add up.


I can talk for hours about the gas prices... Did you know Canada is one of the richest countries in the world for oil? We should only be paying $0.50-$0.60/liter, not $1.48 like they're predicting for April...

How can a young driver pay for food, rent, and then commute on top of that... Even a bus pass for a month is well over $100(minimum) and hope to god you don't actually need to cross cities... Cause then you can pretty well kiss your pay-cheque good bye. It's retarded. - fact

Thats why you buy a car thats cheap to insure, you can drive all year round (so in the winter you don't complain about having to pay insurance and buy a bus pass) and build a driving reputation for the insurance companies and in due time and have the finances above $10-$15/hour then you can buy your toys and luxuries.

Kids thinking everything should be handed to them. It's retarded. - fact

 

[ReaImDown]

I drive a 1981 Chrysler Cordoba (brings back memories?) basic of basic insurance... If its stolen, torched, mangled or blown up... I have to cover it... $400/month insurance. How's that fair? For me -> it's not important... Money is monetary... I'm saying for all the other kids that can't afford $400/month for insurance on a $500 car yet are good responsible drivers.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.701149,-79.822637
- Randy

 

[fastar1]

Where do you get double from? The risk of an unknown driving record could be more than that, particularly when gender, age, and license possession are factored in. If the risk were only 2x as much then whichever insurance company figured that out first could corner the market on young, inexperienced, freshly licensed male drivers but they don't. Probably because they'd lose big time.

Believe it or not, you ARE a greater risk because you're male. You can cry "but I'm not just a male, I'm RANDY" all you want, there is no quantifyable difference in risk between all the Randys and everyone else so it's meaningless.

As for the waking up a better driver, of course that doesn't happen. Any more than 101km/h will cause you to crash, or one extra ppm of lead in the water will kill you, or millions of other examples ad infinitum. Welcome to the world of regulation, where lines have to be drawn somewhere. It's better to have crude delinations than none at all.

 

[EngineerJoe]

Very true... But when you equate the average 20something year olds wage $10-$15/hour vs how much the insurance is... That's almost 1/5 of their yearly income... Not including the bike/car & not to mention the rising gas prices... I'm a lot more fortunate as I have an amazing job, but it still hurts like a son of a *****... Things add up.


I can talk for hours about the gas prices... Did you know Canada is one of the richest countries in the world for oil? We should only be paying $0.50-$0.60/liter, not $1.48 like they're predicting for April...

How can a young driver pay for food, rent, and then commute on top of that... Even a bus pass for a month is well over $100(minimum) and hope to god you don't actually need to cross cities... Cause then you can pretty well kiss your pay-cheque good bye. It's retarded. - fact

When I started driving, I was lucky to have a POS Dodge Omni GLH. And when I went to school, the walk from off-campus housing to school cost me $0 in gas. I still had a license, vehicle and insurance, but rarely used it. Factor in parking (frustration and cost) and the fact that my student fees payed for the city bus (unlimited usage), and I rarely drove (despite the fact that I loved driving).

Don't get me started on gas prices....

 

[mattcanada]

I would just like to say that to ride, or drive for that matter, is a PRIVILEGE. I'm almost 21, and yes it sucks, insurance rates are seriously high, but like everyone already said the fact that you don't have any driving record so all the insurance companies are doing is covering their own *** just in case **** does hit the fan. That being said if you cannot afford to play then guess what, don't.

 

[umesh840]

I am with TD (Meloche) and I pay $260 a month for a pilot and was quoted $980 a year for a 2009 GT250R, and im also 19 first year with insurance, spotless record, student...

I remeber a 2 years ago prices were really high for me

 

[ReaImDown]

Which company?


- Randy

 

[PLau]

I would just like to say that to ride, or drive for that matter, is a PRIVILEGE. I'm almost 21, and yes it sucks, insurance rates are seriously high, but like everyone already said the fact that you don't have any driving record so all the insurance companies are doing is covering their own *** just in case **** does hit the fan. That being said if you cannot afford to play then guess what, don't.

+1

Thats the reason why most young riders (that pay for the bike + other costs themselves) use their life savings or close to it to start to ride. If you're paying for it yourself, don't expect to just decide that you want to ride, get a bike, and go without doing your research beforehand.

 

[PLau]

I pay $260 a month for a pilot and was quoted $980 a year for a 2009 GT250R, and im also 19 first year with insurance, spotless record, student...

I remeber a 2 years ago prices were really high for me

Which company?


- Randy

That $980 today would be approx $1500 today on top of that, he probably had his car and bike bundled + possibly student discounts.

 

[OpenGambit]

Very true... But when you equate the average 20something year olds wage $10-$15/hour vs how much the insurance is... That's almost 1/5 of their yearly income... Not including the bike/car & not to mention the rising gas prices... I'm a lot more fortunate as I have an amazing job, but it still hurts like a son of a *****... Things add up.


I can talk for hours about the gas prices... Did you know Canada is one of the richest countries in the world for oil? We should only be paying $0.50-$0.60/liter, not $1.48 like they're predicting for April...

How can a young driver pay for food, rent, and then commute on top of that... Even a bus pass for a month is well over $100(minimum) and hope to god you don't actually need to cross cities... Cause then you can pretty well kiss your pay-cheque good bye. It's retarded. - fact


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.701209,-79.822734
- Randy

maybe you can consider talking gas prices to someone who knows what they are talking about then.

1. Refining capacity isn't based in Canada, you should know that even if all you did was follow the Keystone XL debate
2. WTI and Brent are the prices that matter. It doesn't matter where the oil is, the oil is worth what it can get sold for. There is no good reason to give a huge oil subsidy domestically.

I would be interested to see how you arrive at the 60 cents a litre figure.

 

[OpenGambit]

My reasoning is simple... New drivers haven't proved if they're good... Or bad drivers yet... Good drivers have. If a new driver pays X amount... Start a new driver off around double... Until they prove they deserve to pay out the ***. It is next to impossible to keep up with inflation, let alone gouging. Logically it makes sense. Give people the opportunity to prove themselves. As for the "at 25 you're more mature" -> bullllshit. You go to bed one night at the age of 24, wake up in the morning and you're 25... This mystical thing happened in your sleep that made you more mature... Not quite. But that's how ageism works.

At 17, you're not an adult... Can't watch porn, can't vote, can't do anything... Wake up, you're 18... You can... What's this magical overnight change?

Because I have a penis dictates that I am immature and I - me am more likely to commit crimes, crash my car, speed or have violent tendencies... It makes no sense. Does one not agree?


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.701090,-79.822752
- Randy

Your insurance quote is based on risk spread across your sector based on age and sex.. that number isnt' arbitary, its based on the amount of claims made by people of that group.

your "double" figure is arbitary. There is no business, statistical or logical reason for that number.

You didn't grow more mature when you are 25, you become part of a group that costs less money to insure at 25.

The 25 cut off may be arbitary, but the premiums and claims behind the groupings are not.

and yes, the fact that you have a penis and are a certain age makes it more likely that you will commit crimes, crash my car, speed, or have violent tendenacies. That is just a fact, and yes it makes sense. I don't see any old ladies committing B&Es.

 

[Bweixz]

+1

Thats the reason why most young riders (that pay for the bike + other costs themselves) use their life savings or close to it to start to ride. If you're paying for it yourself, don't expect to just decide that you want to ride, get a bike, and go without doing your research beforehand.

Dam straight i put 6k of my osap into my shiet . . .

 

[BusaBob]

and yes, the fact that you have a penis and are a certain age makes it more likely that you will commit crimes, crash my car, speed, or have violent tendenacies. That is just a fact, and yes it makes sense. I don't see any old ladies committing B&Es.

LOL! Sad but true...

 

[VifferFun]

Are you in University or College right now or have a full time job? If so, get a quote from TD Meloche Monnex. See if you're enrolled in an eligible school or part of a professional association. If so, you're in for a huge discount.

I find it odd that VifferFun's thread doesn't mention MM for any bikes under 600CC displacement. MM is by far the cheapest for me on a 250R ($1,424/yr for 21yo on a 2011 250R, $500 comprehensive, no collision, no bundle).

And if you have a car, get a quote at the same time. I get a $150/yr discount for bundling with my auto insurance.

I find that odd too I think it was an oversight on my part. If TD/MM/Primmum is offering good rates to the under-25 crowd on under-600CC bikes, then I'll add it. Does anyone know the MM/TD/Primmum eligibility criteria? Do they have a minimum age? How do the Jevco and TD quotes compare for the under-25 crowd with 1+ years of experience?

 

[VifferFun]

Are you seriously that thick? I knew before the thread even started that insurance companies are more worried about legal and medical expenses, my quote doesn't even include collision damage, only liability. I was only using the price of the bike as a gauge on how unbelievably expensive my quote was. Like I said earlier in the thread, the generation that is insuring me now didn't have to deal with any of this bull**** when they were even 16. They went out, got a licence, a bike, and were riding affordably the next day.


Now they are allowed to profile youths, and give you outrageous and unaffordable rates based on sexist and stereotypical ideologies. Contrary to their beliefs, I'm probably a hell of a lot more responsible on the road then most of the 20-somethings on this forum riding 600s.


In my safety course I took last year there were about 15 people ranging from 22-50 years old and practically all of them already owned bikes and had riding experience, I was 18 (the youngest there) and had never even sat on a bike before. The final test came around for our m2, it was pouring rain and I was the only one there who passed every test 100% with no faults at all. Even the older people with riding experience were dropping bikes, making mistakes, and having close calls.


I'm not saying I'm a great rider or anything (because I'm not yet), but I was better than the other new riders in my safety course who were going to go ride their 600cc 'starter bikes' on the street the next day. And who gets stuck with the unaffordable insurance rate because I'm not experienced or 'mature' enough to ride a 250? Compared to them? Ahh, f*ck this world

You've got your license -- that's step one. Step two is to wait a full calendar year after you obtained your M1 -- once you hit this anniversary, get a new quote with Jevco and you will find that the rate has dropped about 35% compared to what you were paying with 0 years licensed.

 

[VifferFun]

My reasoning is simple... New drivers haven't proved if they're good... Or bad drivers yet... Good drivers have. If a new driver pays X amount... Start a new driver off around double... Until they prove they deserve to pay out the ***. It is next to impossible to keep up with inflation, let alone gouging. Logically it makes sense. Give people the opportunity to prove themselves. As for the "at 25 you're more mature" -> bullllshit. You go to bed one night at the age of 24, wake up in the morning and you're 25... This mystical thing happened in your sleep that made you more mature... Not quite. But that's how ageism works.

At 17, you're not an adult... Can't watch porn, can't vote, can't do anything... Wake up, you're 18... You can... What's this magical overnight change?

Because I have a penis dictates that I am immature and I - me am more likely to commit crimes, crash my car, speed or have violent tendencies... It makes no sense. Does one not agree?


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=43.701090,-79.822752
- Randy

You don't think that we set the rates for young people based on actual claims experience? Although you haven't had an opportunity to prove yourself yet at 17yo, we use the historical claims experience of 17yo drivers over the past five years or so to estimate how much of a liability you are. Although you may consider yourself to be a safe 17yo operator, most aren't and you have to pay for that. If a company charged 17yo operators less than their expected future claim, they would lose their shirt.

 

[PLau]

You don't think that we set the rates for young people based on actual claims experience? Although you haven't had an opportunity to prove yourself yet at 17yo, we use the historical claims experience of 17yo drivers over the past five years or so to estimate how much of a liability you are. Although you may consider yourself to be a safe 17yo operator, most aren't and you have to pay for that. If a company charged 17yo operators less than their expected future claim, they would lose their shirt.

I'm part of that statistic at the age of 18 losing control on ice and hitting snowbanks that turned in to ice due to freezing rain in a car...

It's due to inexperience and stupid decisions such as driving home at 5AM right after freezing rain...

 

[VifferFun]

The 25 cut off may be arbitary, but the premiums and claims behind the groupings are not.

It's actually not arbitrary, and with the more widespread acceptance of Generalized Linear Models an increasing number of companies are starting to refine "25+" band into more groupings (such as 25-30, 30-40, etc.). I think that, in the future, we will start seeing premium increases for people 60+, since they actually start to become more risky due to the aging process.

 

[Bermuda]

You're 19, you can't simply claim to be responsible and expect people to take your word for it. You have to demonstrate it. Demonstrating responsibility is the product of learned experience, not some biased self evaluation.

All anecdotes aside, there are very good reasons for insurance companies to charge what they do, as has been explained. Show that you're responsible, and don't act like a child because you can't get what you want when you want.

 

[Bweixz]

I find that odd too I think it was an oversight on my part. If TD/MM/Primmum is offering good rates to the under-25 crowd on under-600CC bikes, then I'll add it. Does anyone know the MM/TD/Primmum eligibility criteria? Do they have a minimum age? How do the Jevco and TD quotes compare for the under-25 crowd with 1+ years of experience?

Based off personal experience, I am 19, GM2, after holding my M2 for a year i got quotes from Jevco and TD, Jecvo quoted me 1800 for the year (same as some other insurance companies) on my ninja 250 while TD quoted me 1325. TD has special rates for students in uni/college as well as alumni. So it'll chop it down like around 500 with the student discount.