Guarantee labour prices and production costs go up every year too.
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More automatic transmissions
- Thread starter bigpoppa
- Start date
A manual transmission is becoming an anti-theft device. Lots of people don't know what a clutch does or why it is necessary, nevermind know how to use one. Learning how to use a clutch while also learning how to operate a motorcycle may be a bridge too far, so if this helps people get on two wheels, so be it.
As an EV owner, I'm good with "no transmission".
As an EV owner, I'm good with "no transmission".
Besides the joy of shifting my own gears, personally, there are the things I would miss if I couldn't buy a motorcycle without a clutch:
- selecting the exact gear and RPM for the rear wheel to put power down. For example, on steep, rocky hill climbs, if the bottom of second doesn't provide enough power, downshift, raise the throttle and engage the rear wheel with the clutch at the top of first to be in the desired part of the powerband.
With an automatic, when you press the button to downshift, you are forced into whatever equivalent RPM the bike has rev-matched the engine to in the lower gear. You don't get to choose at what part of the powerband to engage the rear wheel. If you need to spool up the engine again with the throttle only, you may have already lost momentum and you're not going to make the hill climb.
- providing a quick hit of power to the rear wheel, to lighten or raise the front. Either to wheelie or get the front wheel over a tall obstacle like a log or boulder. With an automatic, you cannot lay down power at the top of the powerband, it's a linear increase from wherever you are in the rev range.
Bye bye, slow wheelies. Sayonara, clutch-up wheelies.
- backing it into a corner: hard on the brakes, clutch in, tap down twice on the shifter and use the clutch to manage the rear wheel sliding to change the direction of the bike. Can't do this with an automatic.
Granted, most of the use cases are probably not for street use, and are off-road or track specific, but if you use your bike in both cases - like on a dual sport, ADV, supersport or supermoto - then you're probably not going to happy they took away your clutch.
I don't think there is a technical reason why they couldn't add a manual clutch lever if they wanted to. That gives you automatic when you want it and clutch control to allow your other tasks. IIRC, many of the tractor trailer automatics have (or had?) driver operated clutch to get moving and the computer did the rest. That's a manual and computer controlled clutch on the same vehicle.
Isn't that what we already have with a quickshifter? Clutchless upshifts/downshifts, use the clutch if you have to choose a specific RPM.
The issue I was addressing is if they do away with the clutch lever entirely.
Relax
Well-known member
On cars, pulling in both paddles is like pulling in the clutch, so if it does the same on these bike transmissions, you should be able to do most of the things you listed. As for the supermoto slide, the Ducati 698 has a way to do it with just the rear brake and throttle.
Sort of. I think there is a market for one step more automation than quickshifter. Let the transmission shift gears and let rider come to a stop without touching clutch. I don't know if anyone has a fully automatic transmission/clutch that also has a manual clutch.
There are a couple of electric trials bikes that have a clutch lever as well. Won't stall out if you don't pull the clutch in at a stop, but allows use of the clutch to lay down the power the way you want to.
This is the model I was looking at:
EM - Epure Race / The best electric trial motorcycle with a clutch
The TOP One The 2023 Epure Race is the proof that an electric motorbike is a good as a combustion one today. With its diaphragm clutch, power, acceleration, trajection and lightness, this bike has all the features riders would expect. More dynamic with its new Reiger 2-way shock absorber, the...
www.electric-motion.fr
And I think @Wingboy's Mecatecno also has this feature.
EM Menu - Mecatecno Dragonfly
Introduction Although this website is primarily about Electric Motion, the Mecatecno Dragonfly is initially what got me interested in electric trials bikes. Most of what I'll write about the Dragonfly assumes you have some familiarity with the way EM has done things. If you are completely new to
www.electricmotiontech.com
Again, the issue isn't "is it possible?", it's "if they do away with the clutch lever entirely".
Pulling in both paddles to disengage power...
I'm sure they could totally replicate the same thing. Just add an extra lever on the left handlebar to disengage the power, and....
owaitaminnit...
Ok, now let's really stir the pot..
www.visordown.com
Honda Removes the Twist From Twist-and-Go
Honda is developing a new foot-operated throttle for its scooter models which is intended to improve comfort for the rider
Ok, now let's really stir the pot..
Honda Removes the Twist From Twist-and-Go
Honda is developing a new foot-operated throttle for its scooter models which is intended to improve comfort for the rider
Very timely! Buried at the bottom of the article:
2024 Honda CBR650R With E-Clutch Review: Old School Meets New School?
Honda’s sporty middleweight sticks to an old-fashioned recipe while mixing in the fascinating new E-Clutch system
www.visordown.com
Exactly what we are just talking about a couple of posts above.
I've been here for 17 years. Talking about things like how the biz might look 30-40 years from now is not unusual. There are quite a few of us on the forum who work(ed) in, or adjacent to, the motorcycle industry.
Ah, so that explains it...
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I saw some interesting stats on manual shift cars in Canada and the US. 5% of the cars on the road today are manual shift, less than 2% of all cars sold in 2024 are manual, and less than 18% of all drivers surveyed say they can drive a manual shift. The article suggested that the number might be lower as many men responded yes to the question "Can you drive a manual shift car?" but answered survey control questions incorrectly (questions on when to shift, hill control, downshifting etc) suggesting that as many as 1/2 the male respondents may have been fibbing.
All my cars are manual shift, as is my daughter's car. One of my sons has never driven a manual.
Automatic doesn't mean smart.
A woman hopped into her Cadillac and thought it was noisy while driving. She drove from the cottage to the dealer at highway speed for an hour or more. It was a minor transmission problem but she fried the engine.
When told she would have to pay for the engine because they're not to be run WOT that long she asked where that was in the driver's manual.
It wasn't and she got a free new engine.
A woman hopped into her Cadillac and thought it was noisy while driving. She drove from the cottage to the dealer at highway speed for an hour or more. It was a minor transmission problem but she fried the engine.
When told she would have to pay for the engine because they're not to be run WOT that long she asked where that was in the driver's manual.
It wasn't and she got a free new engine.
gpfan
Well-known member
FFS, the Miata was based on the Lotus Elan. The real one. Mazda bumf has repeatedly said that for thirty-five years.
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