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inreb said:
I don't know about Norway but I believe our culture is too adversarial and government reflects that. First world egos. That needs to be fixed first.
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This is the thing; it's cultural. That means it's our geography, our history, our institutions and our values, who shape the culture. It's us, the people.

Unless people believe that democracy is an outright illusion, then they have to accept that politicians derive their power from popular support. So if the parties all suck, then WE all suck. Blaming politicians is just a way of avoiding responsibility for our own deficiencies.
 
fastar1 said:
This is the thing; it's cultural. That means it's our geography, our history, our institutions and our values, who shape the culture. It's us, the people.

Unless people believe that democracy is an outright illusion, then they have to accept that politicians derive their power from popular support. So if the parties all suck, then WE all suck. Blaming politicians is just a way of avoiding responsibility for our own deficiencies.
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What sets our moral compass? What influences our values that influences how we interact with each other in competitive arenas like work, politics, sports and garage sales? If always being seen as a winner, if compromise, is seen as a weakness we'll never meet our potential as a society.
 
FiReSTaRT said:
no wonder I always show up in my Sunday's best and formally decline my ballot
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I decline my ballot as well if there is nobody who gives me confidence in their ability - Which has been the case in the last 3-4 elections, both federal and provincial.

Wonder what would happen if 25% of the population actually declined their ballot - the gov't would hopefully realize that we're sick of their crap and have made this our official protest. Get someone in who actually does what they promise - not all lies and honey to get them elected and then do whatever they want.
 
Sativa Quemador said:
lol ooops
[video=youtube_share;x2PXySGHbnk]http://youtu.be/x2PXySGHbnk[/video]
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Well at least, unlike the Federal Conservatives, they made that commercial with party money. Not that I agree with campaigning when there's no election on, though.

FiReSTaRT said:
When the choice is between another Mike Harris, the dumbarse Dips and that, no wonder I always show up in my Sunday's best and formally decline my ballot
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And I would encourage anyone who would normally stay away from the polls on election day, due to lack of reasonable choice, to do the same. Politicians need to be shown that there are voters out there who can be won over, if they stop playing stupid partisan games and get down to some real work.

SlowMo said:
I decline my ballot as well if there is nobody who gives me confidence in their ability - Which has been the case in the last 3-4 elections, both federal and provincial.

Wonder what would happen if 25% of the population actually declined their ballot - the gov't would hopefully realize that we're sick of their crap and have made this our official protest. Get someone in who actually does what they promise - not all lies and honey to get them elected and then do whatever they want.
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There is no option, at the Federal elections level, to decline your ballot. All that you're doing there, is telling them to toss it in the garbage and ignore it. Back in something like '98 Elections Canada advised that it should be made an option, but it was never adopted.
 
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There shouldn't ever be a reason to decline your ballot. I never have. Vote according to your conscience is what I say, rather than who the "winner" is going to be.

This is why I usually vote NDP.

I'm sad Layton died. I would have loved to have seen him as official leader of the opposition and then something more. Amazing campaign, I had no idea his time left was so tenuous.
 
doesnt that make the NDP look like weasels ?

Dude was sooo close to death, yet running for PM. he knew he was dying, yet he still decided to run ..
looked like aids got him, by the looks of it
 
Sunspark said:
There shouldn't ever be a reason to decline your ballot. I never have. Vote according to your conscience is what I say, rather than who the "winner" is going to be.

This is why I usually vote NDP.

I'm sad Layton died. I would have loved to have seen him as official leader of the opposition and then something more. Amazing campaign, I had no idea his time left was so tenuous.
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Sometimes your conscience tells you that none of the candidates deserve the big chair. Given that in our system the individual riding candidates have very little power it seems like you shouldn't vote based on your local candidate, unless you think that he or she has a shot at a cabinet position.

A declined ballot is a vote of protest. You're saying that there is no one, who is running, who deserves your support. I think that we need more of that; simply stating that we expect more.

Sativa Quemador said:
doesnt that make the NDP look like weasels ?

Dude was sooo close to death, yet running for PM. he knew he was dying, yet he still decided to run ..
looked like aids got him, by the looks of it
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It was cancer.
 
By the way plate renewal fees are going up this year.. And next year.. And the year after... "In order to improve the roads".. Wow.. I didn't know the provincial government did so much to improve our road infrastructure that they burned through the entire gas tax budget and are looking for more :eek: Because, as we know, all of the gas tax money makes it into the road maintenance/improvement and none of it makes it into the general coffers :cool:
 
Sativa Quemador said:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...als-owe-full-health-disclosure/article626867/

interesting read..

i think if he was attempting to become the PM, he should have made his sickness known.
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It's an opinion piece, not news, as is far too much of what appears in 'newspapers' these days.

FiReSTaRT said:
By the way plate renewal fees are going up this year.. And next year.. And the year after... "In order to improve the roads".. Wow.. I didn't know the provincial government did so much to improve our road infrastructure that they burned through the entire gas tax budget and are looking for more :eek: Because, as we know, all of the gas tax money makes it into the road maintenance/improvement and none of it makes it into the general coffers :cool:
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That's my position on the transportation surcharge idea; stop using general coffers to hide what is spent on what. If the taxes were used for their originally intended purpose, politicians would know how much money that had budgeted.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Sometimes your conscience tells you that none of the candidates deserve the big chair. Given that in our system the individual riding candidates have very little power it seems like you shouldn't vote based on your local candidate, unless you think that he or she has a shot at a cabinet position.
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I don't agree with the way the Harperites have managed things and I won't forget that time Flaherty said his own province was a terrible place to do business. That aside, if my riding had a cabinet minister candidate that was a Harperite I wouldn't vote for him because I don't agree with how the government has been run and also knowing that everyone is expected to toe the party line.

Hence my vote needs to be used to deny the Harperite a chance.
 
No other parties expect members to toe the line, that's exclusive "Harperite" territory.
 
vociferous said:
what? no its not, all parties expect their members to support the party.
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This is true. It's called whipping the vote by the party whip. If you don't vote with the party on non-free votes they do get agita and often kick you out if it is a major bill like a budget which is a non-confidence vote if it fails. Even a minority government will throw their members out. Most recent example off the top of my head is Mourani in Quebec. Member of the Federal BQ, condemned the Provincial PQ's religion and stuff charter so she was chucked out of the party. Never even went to a vote. This was solely not holding the little red book high enough in the air.
 
mmmnaked said:
No other parties expect members to toe the line, that's exclusive "Harperite" territory.
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Actually, it's an accepted practice in the Canadian brand of party politics. That's why we have official party whips. Look at the system on the federal level. Instead of representation by population, we have "ridings" gerrymandered to prevent the majority of the population from determining who runs the country. That means that regions with no population have much more of a political clout than they would in a truly representative system. Ok, that's what we chose as a nation, so you're MP is supposed to represent YOU and your little neck of the woods with 15,000 voting adults and has the same voting power as someone representing ten times as many people. However, a party whip negates all that. Instead of you voting for the best interest of your community, all of a sudden you have a party Comrade-whip telling you how you should vote on this issue or that issue, even if it's contrary to the interests of your community.

Realistically, having the office of the party whip is a great argument for switching to the rep by pop model. That way, the party with the greatest number of votes has the greatest number of seats and gets to determine how to run the country based on the will of the people.
 
mmmnaked said:
No other parties expect members to toe the line, that's exclusive "Harperite" territory.
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I'm sorry, but you're very wrong here. ALL parties, both Federal and Provincial, leverage the obedience of their local reps. Harper may be more obvious about it, but that's all.

FiReSTaRT said:
Actually, it's an accepted practice in the Canadian brand of party politics. That's why we have official party whips. Look at the system on the federal level. Instead of representation by population, we have "ridings" gerrymandered to prevent the majority of the population from determining who runs the country. That means that regions with no population have much more of a political clout than they would in a truly representative system. Ok, that's what we chose as a nation, so you're MP is supposed to represent YOU and your little neck of the woods with 15,000 voting adults and has the same voting power as someone representing ten times as many people. However, a party whip negates all that. Instead of you voting for the best interest of your community, all of a sudden you have a party Comrade-whip telling you how you should vote on this issue or that issue, even if it's contrary to the interests of your community.

Realistically, having the office of the party whip is a great argument for switching to the rep by pop model. That way, the party with the greatest number of votes has the greatest number of seats and gets to determine how to run the country based on the will of the people.
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I can't really agree with that either. That creates a 'tyranny of the majority.' In other words urban cores would wipe rural life out of existence. Farming would suffer, when it's a mainstay of our economy and way of life, as would other industries like lumbering.
 
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